[ { "i": 0, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "I'm a massive bear on decentralization. Nobody cares if the chain is decentralized. I think it's the biggest **** ever." }, { "i": 1, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "So I started Baton Corporation, which is a development company for Pump.fun, when I was, I believe, just turned 19." }, { "i": 2, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "The foundation has how much money at the moment?" }, { "i": 3, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "Close to 2B in treasury assets, I'd say. So what, would you say the next logical step forward is to launch a Pump.fun stablecoin? Why would the Pump.fun nation not decide to launch their own stablecoin?" }, { "i": 4, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "Truth is, if you control the end user, what the user is using underneath the hood is completely irrelevant, as long as it's a good experience. User experience on Ethereum is **** dog ****." }, { "i": 5, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "If you were to launch your own chain, what would be the benefit?" }, { "i": 6, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "The best experience for the user." }, { "i": 7, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "Low or zero gas fees. When I look at a meme coin, there's no network effects in a launchpad." }, { "i": 8, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "Disagree. Nonsense. Not true. Why can't you speak about your prediction market positions? Why can't you speak about your perpetual futures positions? This social thing will eat the entire market." }, { "i": 9, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "Pump.fun as an app is arguably one of the best apps or the most used apps in crypto ever, right? Since they launched in January 2020, they've generated over a billion dollars worth of revenue." }, { "i": 10, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "Get this. I did some research and they have, if I remember correctly, they have 13.5 million active wallets that have basically used the app and they make up about 40% of the total activity on the Solana network." }, { "i": 11, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "And you heard that right. 40% of the total activity on the Solana network is actually made up by one app, which is Pump.fun. When I say made up by one app, the app and all the related stuff there." }, { "i": 12, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "Recently, we've been, following Pump.fun and if you look at the chart of Pump.fun, the chart looks something like this, right? So that's the chart." }, { "i": 13, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "And what you can see is that the chart bottomed at about 10 cents or one cent or 0.01. And today that's gone up at 2x. Now I've been following this and I've been speaking to the team behind the scenes, and I kind of know what happened between here and here." }, { "i": 14, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "And why I thought I'd bring you this interview is because I wanted you guys to hear it from the founders. Now it's a very rare treat because the founders don't actually usually dox themselves, right? They don't actually usually dox themselves." }, { "i": 15, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "We've managed to get them on and to come up with some kind of arrangement where you don't actually see their face, but we can actually dig in and get the story. Noah, good to see you, my friend. Hey, how's it going?" }, { "i": 16, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "You all right? Yeah, man." }, { "i": 17, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "The last time we spoke actually was, I think, when Pump.fun actually launched and it was, you know, it was meme coins being launched all the time. It was like the beginning of an era." }, { "i": 18, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "Today, like the app's live, there's dopamine happening. I'm keen to hear from you, like, how has the product or the industry changed? How's your outlook on the industry changed? When you guys thought it was a meme coin launchpad, right?" }, { "i": 19, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "For sure." }, { "i": 20, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "I mean, I think if you look at like, so when Pump.fun launched, which was what, like January 2024, more than two years ago now, and you look at the sort of landscape today, not only" }, { "i": 21, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "in sort of the meme space, but into crypto as a whole, it's been like 180 or 360 degree shift, right? Everything has changed." }, { "i": 22, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "Like you started off two years ago, you'd have to sort of go on like an archaic website, our website, which was a Pump.fun website, which was barely functioning. You had to sort of get a Phantom wallet." }, { "i": 23, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "You have to sort of download it, install it, go through all this sort of stuff. It was really hard to get money into the system and you had to sort of start trading these coins. The barrier to entry was massive, right? And now if you look at today's world, you can literally just pull out your mobile phone," }, { "i": 24, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "deposit in seconds and start trading memes like instantly, right? So it's not only sort of an advanced sort of technology and around the sort of features which sort of come around the sort of application, but it's also just like a whole new experience of like how these, how do you even trade these coins in the first place?" }, { "i": 25, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "So, yeah. How do you guys see the business? Like when you define your business internally?" }, { "i": 26, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "Is it like, yeah. I would say it's a trading venue, right? That's how we sort of call it. The idea here is to create a social trading experience, ideally mobile first, but obviously we have different sort of front ends." }, { "i": 27, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "We have this sort of a terminal front end for pro traders and the web front end for the sort of web user base. But it's a sort of mobile first social trading experience which allows anyone to trade anything." }, { "i": 28, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "That's pretty much what it is at the moment." }, { "i": 29, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "I mean, that sounds awfully like an exchange or like a perpetual." }, { "i": 30, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "I see it, I think Coinbase, like what is Coinbase really, right? It's just like trade a bunch of coins, and you're limited on the amount of coins, which can be traded, right?" }, { "i": 31, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "Because it's like only above a certain size that kind of coin we actually list on Coinbase and actually traded. What the Pump.fun app essentially facilitates is trading on every single coin, including the big ones," }, { "i": 32, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "but also more importantly, the small ones, which the everyday sort of Joe creates and wants people to trade and buy into his coin." }, { "i": 33, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "So when a user goes to Pump.fun today, what do you want their user journey to be like? What is the ideal user journey? I go into Pump.fun today, what do you want me to do?" }, { "i": 34, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "Well, I want you to sort of begin trading on the application, start doing volume, and then essentially just like be a retained and happy customer and enjoy the product and then make money and just really like it basically. So yeah." }, { "i": 35, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "How do you think the industry's changed since you guys first launched and everyone was launching meme coins after every word that Elon was saying and every word that Trump was saying?" }, { "i": 36, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "Like, how do you think the industry's changed since January 24?" }, { "i": 37, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "That's a good question. I mean, it's become a lot more, I think, so 24 was like the start of the bull market. Bull market sort of takes off, more volumes flows into these things." }, { "i": 38, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "You have a sort of round, the whole Trump, the actual like Trump launching his meme coin, which I would say is like quite like the sort of tip of the bull market in that sense. Then the sort of market starts cooling off." }, { "i": 39, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "Everyone begins just like NFTs and well, not like NFTs, just like in crypto in general, the sort of revenue and sort of usage of products sort of declines down. And what does that benefit? That benefits the sort of pro trader." }, { "i": 40, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "So it becomes more of a professional's game instead of a sort of retail retail users game. So I think over the past couple of years, the sort of the activity has trended more towards a sort of a game played by sort of sharks or people who just trade all day compared to the sort of retail user base." }, { "i": 41, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "But more recently, over the past couple of months, it's sort of trending back in that sort of retail friendly landscape. So I think like most things in crypto, it is very it's so dependent on the cycle, what the user experience ends up being. But I think from the" }, { "i": 42, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "end of the day, like the product which we launched on day one and probably is today, it hasn't changed that much. It's mostly just been like, how can you make the user experience better? How can you add more features? And how can you do stuff which makes the user life easier to better experience?" }, { "i": 43, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "But the core products just like launching a coin in one click in under two minutes or under 10 seconds in this case is still there, right? And you might be like, Hmm, this doesn't make much sense. Why is there such a limited amount of innovation quote unquote going on?" }, { "i": 44, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "But if you look at it, like look at Instagram, right? What was Instagram? Instagram was an app which you" }, { "i": 45, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "like to sort of share photos, you know, you can share photos, you know, you can share photos, you can share photos on like a feed and share it to your friends and I do like it. Application is whatever, over 10 years old, it hasn't really changed since day one, right?" }, { "i": 46, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "So the most beautiful products and the best products hardly ever changed from inception. And obviously, with this whole new sort of social layer, we got it onto it, we're planning to expand into different stuff." }, { "i": 47, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "But the corporate itself, like anyone can launch a coin and sort of make it off that I think is a cool process." }, { "i": 48, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "So what are you trying to do with the social stuff? Like what is the social experience on Pump.fun? Or what is it going to be? For sure. Yeah." }, { "i": 49, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "I mean, it's a really good question. I think it's a really good question. Already live right now, like you mentioned the start on the app. But if you look at this, right now on what does most people do in crypto do they spend the entire day on crypto Twitter, right?" }, { "i": 50, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "And on crypto Twitter, when you sort of scroll through, you're looking at these different tweets, and what what what are in these tweets, right? Most of the time, it's a little sort of synopsis, and then it's a coin. And the coin is sort of specifically you're talking about I know," }, { "i": 51, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "either ETH, Bitcoin, a meme coin, like utility, whatever it may be, it's mostly like a atomic unit of sort of a social consensus, or like your post why you believe this coin is good or bad, for that instance, and then the sort of coin or the coin chart beneath it." }, { "i": 52, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "The idea for us is we want to create an experience which is fully social, where we basically take that what's going on in crypto Twitter, put it onto the mobile application. And instead of instead of like, so only speaking about coins, you kind of put your money where your mouth is." }, { "i": 53, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "So if you believe in a coin, you buy like x amount of dollars, and then that's sort of highlighted on the Pump.fun application, everyone can see how much money you've made, everyone can see how much money you've lost." }, { "i": 54, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "And it really sort of highlights what what experience it looks like." }, { "i": 55, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "So Well, awesome. I'm, I'm very keen to like, dig a little bit into the company and what you what you guys are actually building. I mean, you guys are a very young team. I mean, how old is the the founding team or the core team?" }, { "i": 56, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "I mean, if you were to give an average? Yeah, so. So I started Pump.fun Corporation, which is the development company for Pump.fun when I was, I believe, just turned 19." }, { "i": 57, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "I'm now 22. There's three co founders of Pump.fun Corporation was myself, Alon and Dylan, I'm 22, Alon is 23, and Dylan is 24." }, { "i": 58, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "So yeah, pretty young team. And yeah, it's been a wild journey so far." }, { "i": 59, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "So so you've got this young team that's raised billions of dollars, we'll get into the raise, and we'll get into the money just now. But how big is the team around you guys now? So like, it's not the few of you anymore." }, { "i": 60, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "I'm sure you got dev teams and projects." }, { "i": 61, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "No, no, yeah, 100%. So we're close to I believe, around 80 people. That's the sort of that's the sort of size that's including developers, that's including sort of moderation staff, or non technical people, all that sort of stuff. So it's grown quite quite aggressively." }, { "i": 62, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "What do you reckon the average age of the company is like, if you were to take all 80 people and draw a average in the middle of the age, what's the average age? 25, I'd say 25, 26, maybe." }, { "i": 63, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "So yeah." }, { "i": 64, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "So it's a bunch of 25, a bunch of average age 25 year olds. What are you guys building? Like, there's 80 people? What what are 80 people building? What? Where are the resources going?" }, { "i": 65, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "And the reason why I imagine that you guys are sitting on a pile of cash, just doing some some back of the napkin maths, and we'll talk about the actual numbers. But I reckon you guys are sitting on between one and a half and $2 billion worth of cash," }, { "i": 66, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "which is a lot of cash to be building a whole lot of cool stuff. What are you building? What are you spending the money on?" }, { "i": 67, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "For sure. I mean, so Pump splits its sort of development efforts into three different verticals. The first being obviously the mobile app, which we've sort of spoken about. That's where the majority of the focus is happening on." }, { "i": 68, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "That's where we believe this sort of that's the product we believe can grow from like this amount, like whatever 500,000 users to 100 million users, 200 million users. So that's what we believe the sort of growth is for this industry, where we can sort of grow it out to the largest possible extent for the Pump foundation." }, { "i": 69, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "And then the second vertical, obviously, the sort of web. So when you just type into the website, pump.fun, you'll open it up, you'll see you'll see this web application, which everyone got to sort of originally see. So that's like, that's the second one." }, { "i": 70, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "And the third one is, yeah, so here, you'll also see the feed, which is, which is sort of mentioned the mobile app. So the feed is connected, both on the mobile app and on the and on the web. the feed is connected, both on the mobile app and on the and on the web." }, { "i": 71, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "So you also have user profile is like connected in one sort of social graph. And the third one, you're obviously on the website right now, if you go on terminal on the left hand side, Dana, yep, perfect. That's the pro trading interface." }, { "i": 72, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "So this is for people who sort of spend a lot of time per day trading or investing a lot of cash into coins and need to move quick in and out. It's like a professional trading experience. So that's kind of how the business is split between these three verticals." }, { "i": 73, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "Is this Pump? Or is this a different terminal?" }, { "i": 74, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "Is this is this is Pump, and it was renamed to to terminal basically. So, yeah, so that was that was an acquisition." }, { "i": 75, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "So that the team that you guys have got, you're building the app, you're building the social experience that basically goes, that basically goes on the app. Those are the things that we can see right now that are live. But like, what other stuff are you building?" }, { "i": 76, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "And surely, you're looking beyond the app, and you're looking beyond the social experience, which is live, surely, you've got some moonshots, which are for sure." }, { "i": 77, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "Yes. I mean, what one recent sort of launch, which is, I guess, more moonshotting than the others was go.fun or Pump.fun as people, people, sort of pay everything, pay anyone to do anything, kind of ideas, we constantly have these sort of" }, { "i": 78, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "ideas, which are designed to sort of get PMF and sort of potentially shoot up and get to that sort of 100x sort of growth spree, or we change the sort of face of the company." }, { "i": 79, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "Like if you look at stuff like Google, one of the biggest and most ingenious things they did was they just hired a bunch of really small people, put them into a room. And then they will basically tell their employees and just everyone that guys experiment, try some different stuff." }, { "i": 80, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "And not many people know this. But I release experiments, stuff like Pump.fun came, Pump.fun came, Pump.fun came, Pump.fun came, Pump.fun came, Pump.fun came, Pump.fun came, Pump.fun came, Pump.fun came, Pump.fun came, stuff like Pump.fun came, Pump.fun came, and these then became sort of core components of the entire business." }, { "i": 81, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "So it's really about sort of ruthlessly and sort of like, vigorously experimenting with different ideas, because you never know which one's going to hit. And then obviously, we, there's like a lot of innovation happening on the sort of launchpad layer as well." }, { "i": 82, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "Not many people saw this, I don't think I got a million views on Twitter, but the the new boost mode. So this means that previously, every single coin was locked onto was locked inside the bonding curve." }, { "i": 83, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "And that cash was essentially taken and locked in. perpetuity, like would never be able to be removed the Solana." }, { "i": 84, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "But now every time a coin migrates the Solana, which was previously into the bonding curve doing nothing is taken and is used to market by the token for five minutes post launch." }, { "i": 85, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "So that's doing stuff like I think it injects on average, like, again, I could be wrong here, this is just napkin math, like five to $10 million a day in a week in sort of liquidity into these different coins, and it's increased migrations and sort of usage by quite a large amount and revenue for that matter for the Pump.fun foundation." }, { "i": 86, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "So yeah, how did go dot fund it? I mean, I remember that there were bounties put there and there were people tattooing their foreheads, and there were people doing like absolutely crazy things. How's it going?" }, { "i": 87, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "How did it do? For sure. So honestly, again, Pump.fun was built with three people in like two weeks. So it's just like a quick like hack it together, see if this gets usage. And that's kind of how we run a lot of things at the time, right?" }, { "i": 88, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "Like if something is, you'll do an experiment. And this is how you validate for PMF, you see if it gets usage, and if it doesn't get usage, you kill it." }, { "i": 89, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "And the thing with Pump.fun was it got a humongous amount of attention, obviously, like 20 million views on Twitter, I think there's like the most seen clip in like crypto Twitter history, exactly." }, { "i": 90, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "Maybe outside like FTX or something like that, and got a lot of attention. But the sort of usage sort of trickled off quite quickly and didn't really sort of didn't fulfill it. So we just like again, like we do with a lot of products, we sort of cut it and focus development resources on other things." }, { "i": 91, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "And other experiments, right? That's how you have to run this just like experiment fail win. And then just again, again, again, and just run dozens of experiments a year a month a day, basically." }, { "i": 92, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "So I'm pretty interested to hear your view. And I think I have a view around this, I'm going to pull up the price chart here. This is the price chart of Pump.fun, I think you know, probably better than anyone." }, { "i": 93, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "Something happened like, yeah, like, if you look at like, mid June, you guys bottomed, it was at about about 10 cents, you've doubled since then. I'm kind of interested to hear, I think I know what happened. But I'm interested to hear from you." }, { "i": 94, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "Like what happened? What happened around here that that got this chart?" }, { "i": 95, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "I mean, you can say it was the market, the market really hasn't turned that much something happened, I think on the inside on the outside of Pump.fun, what happened around that point?" }, { "i": 96, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "For sure. Yeah. So I'm just gonna be pretty hesitant. So come on, I'm price specifically, I can't be 100. So I believe the price is gonna go here. But just for this specific time, I believe that point was the unlocks, I could be mistaken." }, { "i": 97, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "I'm not sure. I think that's what you're referring to. So if everyone listening, that's when 25% of the team and investors tokens, unlocks and people are essentially allowed to sell." }, { "i": 98, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "I mean, again, all this data is verifiable on chain and there's on the sort of official pump on Twitter and such and forth." }, { "i": 99, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "But the crypto if I'm wrong, I don't think I think most people I think over 90% of the people who are using crypto are using crypto. I think most people I think over 90% of the people who are using crypto are using crypto." }, { "i": 100, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "I think most people I think over 90% of investors didn't sell their tokens and a lot of them are still holding to this day." }, { "i": 101, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "And again, I think a lot of the team is also. I think that was the unlocks. I think you're right. I'm not 100% sure. But I think it was the unlocks." }, { "i": 102, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "One of the interesting things is that no one sold like you had these massive unlocks and no one sold and I think the question is like, what did you guys do? What vision did you sell to keep people in because these are people these are young, I'm assuming that a lot of" }, { "i": 103, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "these people are young people. probably never had, you know, access to this much liquidity before in their lives. All of a sudden, they got their first real token unlock and no one's selling right." }, { "i": 104, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "I mean, I had a I had a spreadsheet of the addresses and you can literally see that no one has been selling. Yeah, I mean, you can put I've got literally I've got spreadsheets of wallets and we've been tracking the wallets and no one's been selling and I'm like, what did you guys do?" }, { "i": 105, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "Like, I heard of I heard like, I mean, was was it was it selling them a vision? Was it an arrangement that they're not allowed to sell? Kind of key. to that? How did you get people not to sell?" }, { "i": 106, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "So you are you referring to the investors here or the team members of the team?" }, { "i": 107, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "Unlock that unlock was mainly team members, right?" }, { "i": 108, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "Well, those investors as well, right. So I think 13% of supply belongs to investors and 25% of 25% of the investors, but mostly internally the team." }, { "i": 109, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "I mean, again, I think there's the outside there's a Baton and Pump.fun on foundation. And then there's sort of the internal perception. And I think internally, we've got like one of the best teams in crypto." }, { "i": 110, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "got like one of the best teams in crypto. And then there's sort of the internal perception. And everyone sort of hyper motivated sees the vision, and actually sees this sort of industry is what it is, and not what the sort of quote, all people think it is, right?" }, { "i": 111, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "I think like, a lot of people outside the sort of people working to sort of meet meme space thing is just like the next NFTs are going to go to zero, they don't see the sort of they didn't, they don't see the thing." }, { "i": 112, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "And the biggest thing here is that every single young person in crypto and just in general is trading memes or is on prediction markets. That's the truth. Like it's a young man's game." }, { "i": 113, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "Everyone from the age of like 18 to 24. That's the majority of the people who are trading memes. And so, that's the majority of the users." }, { "i": 114, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "So, I think a lot of people at sort of Baton who sort of got compensated in pump tokens, saw the fact that like, oh, hang on a second, this is like, this is actually quite important." }, { "i": 115, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "And this is like, not important, but this is like, this has way, way, way more upside than what it's currently valued at. And hey, I want to build a company which has like a generational impact. It isn't just like sort of going to sit around and then just like go to zero next cycle or whatever." }, { "i": 116, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "So, yeah, it's about building a team which really believes in the product. And then one which is sort of smart enough to identify the things that are going to be the most important." }, { "i": 117, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "And then one which is smart enough to identify what the future of a company like this can look like as well. So, yeah. Has anything changed on the inside? Like when I say, has anything changed inside? I'm going to be blunt with you. Like I speak to a lot of your investors." }, { "i": 118, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "When I say your investors, some of them are seed round investors and that. It feels to me like there's been a shift in the excitement amongst your investor base in the last couple of months. It felt to me like at one point your investor base was a little bit," }, { "i": 119, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "I won't say frustrated, but just not as happy as they are today. And then I speak to your investor base today and your investor base is like, I mean, we had Mike Dudas on the pod a while back and he was like, he was expressing how excited he is." }, { "i": 120, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "I've spoken to many other investors of yours. I think we both know a couple of names that I've spoken to and they all of a sudden believe that you guys, that something's changed. And I'm interested to know, like, did something happen on the inside? Did you maybe reflect on the inside about maybe the way you were doing things?" }, { "i": 121, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "Maybe some mistakes you're making. Has something changed? So, yes. Yes." }, { "i": 122, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "To give some background. So, internally, our focus is very much on the inside. So, we've got a lot of people that are very much always been on product for the Pump.fun Nation, right?" }, { "i": 123, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "It's like, how do we make it the best possible product, which gets way more users, which gets way more traction, way more attention." }, { "i": 124, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "And the thought process being here that if we focus on the product, the token price is kind of irrelevant because what makes the token price go up over a prolonged period of time, it's increased revenue and buybacks, right?" }, { "i": 125, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "That's what helps the, that's what helps and more people buying into the sort of belief of the business, right? That's the truth. And all this stuff about like" }, { "i": 126, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "starting the token and doing along this line, it's very inorganic and it might help you get like a short-term sort of exit liquidity and sort of credit creating like a pump or whatever, but that's not how you build a long-term stable business, which is supposed to be around for the next 20 years, right?" }, { "i": 127, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "That's not how you do it. It's not like a wise decision as well. So, I think that, yeah, I do agree. We took the feedback to heart because I think a lot of people were complaining about our sort of communication style, which we obviously sort of saw and now actively trying to improve." }, { "i": 128, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "Hence, why I'm on podcasts like this one and sort of posting a weekly update. So, yeah, I think that's a really good point. I think that's a really good point. Yeah. I think that's a really good point." }, { "i": 129, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "Yeah. I think that's a really good point. Which everyone here will be able to see on my Twitter." }, { "i": 130, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "But it's also like one thing I want to know, which is quite important as well, from this sort of low on the chart, if you will, the revenue of the pump platform and the Pump.fun Foundation has also increased by like 50 or 60%, right?" }, { "i": 131, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "So, it's like, was it actually the revenue which increased it or was it the communication which increased it? Or was it a combination of both, right? That's always what you have to ask yourself. But for us, like, obviously the price of the token stuff is important." }, { "i": 132, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "And I want to stress this, like very, very, obviously very, very important." }, { "i": 133, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "But the truth is, like, not how you go from like a $2 billion valuation to a $3 billion valuation, but how do you go from a $2 billion valuation to a $100 billion valuation to a $500 billion valuation?" }, { "i": 134, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "Like, how do you become like a global giant? And that's always a sort of thought process we take. And we're not trying to optimize for like an additional $200 million in market cap or whatever." }, { "i": 135, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "So, yeah. Why were you guys so bad at communicating? Like, you guys raised a lot of money. You went quiet on your Twitter profiles. We occasionally got a tweet from Alon." }, { "i": 136, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "Was it a conscious thing? Was it a mistake that you guys made? Like, what happened there?" }, { "i": 137, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "I would say it's a mistake. But I also think, like, again, I'm not here to defend myself, because I think the market definitely priced in a bad way. However, if you look at it, like, I think this communication stuff is like useful, but it's also not useful." }, { "i": 138, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "Like, if you look at it, like, how often is CZ making sort of weekly updates on what's going on in BNB? Is Brian Armstrong doing it? I mean, arguably, maybe, but not that much." }, { "i": 139, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "I mean, I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. It's not to the same extent, which I think people are sort of essentially doing right now. I think that that's obviously nice. But there's obviously some drawbacks with that as well." }, { "i": 140, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "And I think the other thing is when price moves down, there's like this self-fulfilling prophecy of like, oh, the revenues aren't real. The price goes down further. The revenues aren't real. So it's kind of just like this sort of falling momentum, which is very hard to sort of push back against." }, { "i": 141, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "And you catch a lot of it. The truth is during that time period, the only thing the team was doing was focusing on product, executing the product, hiring better people, building more features, acquiring great teams." }, { "i": 142, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "So it's like, like again it's about the sort of short term versus long term and the way we think about stuff is always in the long term so yeah i mean look i'll be honest i think that i think it's a mix between the two i think you know if the token price is going down and there's FUD etc etc but the team is at the same time communicating hey guys we're heads down we're grinding we're about to ship this next week we'll ship that etc etc i think the two balance each other out because the" }, { "i": 143, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "market feels like i felt look as a Pump.fun holder i kind of felt like you know the team was was was was a well and i kind of got used to the fact that the team were well it's nice to have you guys a little bit more out there now and a little bit more because it it it feels like like we know a little bit more about what you're doing and it gives us a lot more comfort it gives your investors stability and safety you know we understand this and i think i agree with you and again like we're working on to fix it at the moment so yeah so listen you spoke about um uh the market cap going from 2 billion to to 100 billion um let's we could just before we talk about market cap let's talk" }, { "i": 144, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "about money like how much money have you guys got i know you guys are burning am i correct in saying you're currently burning 50 percent of the of the revenues being burnt is that is that the again so guys just sorry just if everyone listening this is a big differentiator as well so there's the Pump.fun foundation which owns this money and there's sort of the the UK development company Baton Corporation which sort of like invoiced upwards invoiced upwards so when we speak about who what money the money is inside the Pump.fun foundation let's talk about the foundation so to give some background on the burn firstly so the um uh the" }, { "i": 145, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "the money which is sort of uh is invoiced about one corporation is a around about 100 million dollars a year so that's the amount that's being spent on the foundation and that's the amount that's being spent on sort of uh usage on the um obviously so paying for development costs paying for sort of a tech like tech costs or all this sort of stuff there's money to the foundation and that's all publicly available right that's the amount raised in the ICO and the amount raised in the um uh from sort of revenue basically so yeah so so the the protocol right now the foundation is how much many at the moment um close to two billion treasury assets i'd say so and then and then there's" }, { "i": 146, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "Because like as anything, like the marketing costs might increase so that the burn might have to go down or something like there's like different stuff which affects the sort of yearly burn of Baton Corporation." }, { "i": 147, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "So, yeah, I would say best cash around 100 mil right now." }, { "i": 148, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "So, yeah, the 2 billion, I mean, how's it being managed? Like who's managing the 2 billion treasury? Is the money sitting in cash? Is the money sitting in Solana?" }, { "i": 149, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "Where is it?" }, { "i": 150, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "Again, I like, okay, one, I'm not going to go too much into detail for sort of obvious reasons, but not anything in Solana. So, it's all in, all be in stablecoins or sort of, and like assets." }, { "i": 151, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "And this is managed by the sort of people on the foundation with the sort of interest to sort of keep, obviously keep the Pump.fun platform alive, basically. I don't want to go like too, too in depth of what the sort of corporate structure is." }, { "i": 152, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "And in terms of like daily revenue that's generated, so daily revenue gets generated and then the foundation take that money and use 50% of that money to buy and burn pump tokens. Is that the structure? Yes, that's correct." }, { "i": 153, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "And you can see that here on the, on the graph you're sort of pulling up. There's a daily buyback and burn. There's a sort of revenue allocated to buybacks. And then actually more importantly, there's an interesting one, which is active wallets, which is sort of the amount of active wallets." }, { "i": 154, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "Just one down, sorry. They are exactly that. And this is actually a pretty cool chart to highlight because you see, and if you go on the very side to August 20th, August 7th, I don't know what day they were on now." }, { "i": 155, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "So it's like, so this is Solana wallets and this is, and then below it is Solana wallets excluding ones, which are sort of haven't, haven't touched Pump.fun. So like, and you see, you'll see the sort of percentage. There's like the Pump.fun share is 92%." }, { "i": 156, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "So that basically means that 92% of Pump.fun wallets are 92% of Solana's wallets are Pump.fun either directly or indirectly connected to Pump.fun, which is sort of insane." }, { "i": 157, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "Right now, if you can go, you scroll the way back to sort of December or like January, 2025, where that sort of big, big, big bump is you can see this. Yeah, exactly." }, { "i": 158, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "There you'll see like 4.5 or 4.6 Solana wallets and excluding Pump.fun. It's like all basically the entirety. If you go back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to" }, { "i": 159, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "they resurfaced that there may be a chance that Pump Fund is going to launch its own chain at some point." }, { "i": 160, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "I mean, again, I think that the biggest thing here is that if you go on the mobile app, which is now the sort of predominant trading interface for the Pump Fund application, it's already cross-chain." }, { "i": 161, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "I want to stress to everyone listening here, you can trade BNB assets, you can trade ETH assets, you can trade base assets, you can trade like literally every chain which has trading volume on, you can trade that on the Pump app." }, { "i": 162, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "So it's already sort of cross-chain. And again, we like Solana. We think Solana is the best on-chain experience for a trading thing now. But obviously things can change in the future." }, { "i": 163, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "But yeah, that's the only thing I'll say." }, { "i": 164, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "So no concrete..." }, { "i": 165, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "No, I think there's always a concrete plan to sort of grow the business and make it as big as possible. But one thing I wanted to sort of touch on here is which I think is actually more interesting is every time a pair migrates at the moment, it's paired against Solana, right?" }, { "i": 166, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "And we've sort of looked into this and this alone has added billions of dollars onto sort of Solana's market cap because it's paired. But the more interesting thing you can do here is why not pair it against a stablecoin?" }, { "i": 167, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "And why not make that a Pump.fun stablecoin? Because one, nobody really wants to be denominated in Solana. It makes no sense, right? The world's asset is US dollars, not Solana." }, { "i": 168, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "So it's like how you create an experience which is the best for the user. And that's in USD, right? So I think that's the next logical step forward. So what do you say?" }, { "i": 169, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "The next logical step forward is to launch a Pump.fun stable coin? Exactly. Yeah, correct." }, { "i": 170, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "I mean, obviously get a USDC usage. I mean, obviously you've seen sort of the usage of sort of USD pools on the Pump.fun application. And I can also trade in USD." }, { "i": 171, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "And then once that's in place, why would the Pump.fun foundation not decide to launch a stable coin, right?" }, { "i": 172, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "So I mean, hypothetically, because I'm sure you can't disclose too much here, but if you were to launch a stable coin, kind of like how would it work?" }, { "i": 173, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "How would you onboard the stable coin? What would be the mechanics?" }, { "i": 174, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "With onboard, what would you mean? So I'm saying like the stable coin would live across any chain, almost like another Tether that lives across any chain." }, { "i": 175, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "Yeah, exactly. Identical to that. I think the early idea is we sort of create a wrapped version of tether or USDC just to sort of allow it to sort of grow and get like a big time usage," }, { "i": 176, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "build up the trust, because obviously stable coin is an extremely sort of trust-centric business and allow it to sort of grow and then sort of obviously focus on sort of moving the assets into sort of like bonds and stuff like that once the market cap and liquidity is large enough." }, { "i": 177, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "So, yeah. I want to go back to their own chain because this is the part that's playing on my mind here. Right now you say you guys are completely multi-chain." }, { "i": 178, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "You can launch, you can trade on BNB, you can trade on Solana, you can trade on EVM as well, right?" }, { "i": 179, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "Hyperliquid? Not yet, but I'm sure there'll be some news coming pretty soon." }, { "i": 180, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "I did see something on Twitter." }, { "i": 181, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "I don't know if it's, I don't have it yet, but I did see something on Twitter, some rumors on Twitter that there may be some Hyperliquid activity going on." }, { "i": 182, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "If you were to launch your own chain, like, what would be the benefit?" }, { "i": 183, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "I think it's just like the best experience for the user, right? I think the biggest thing is like you have all these things like sort of gas fees. You could just optimize it purely around for the best possible user experience." }, { "i": 184, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "That could be low or zero gas fees. That could be just like, there's a bunch of stuff, a bunch of stuff you can optimize for to make the end user experience like 10x better to what it currently is, right? And you can sort of make it mobile centric. Yeah, there's a lot of interesting stuff." }, { "i": 185, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "The reason why I ask, the reason why I ask is just because I'm trying to understand what could be made better than Solana. I think that's maybe where I'm going with this whole thing." }, { "i": 186, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "Like if, and the reason why I say this is because I think that there is going to be a future where you create app chains, where apps that are big enough are going to actually launch their own chains for exactly the reason that you're saying, that they can manage their gas fees for one. But I'm trying to get from your point of view," }, { "i": 187, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "where you are a consumer facing product or a front end facing product, what you believe the benefits would be if you ever did that." }, { "i": 188, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "I mean, again, there's like, multiple different benefits. I mean, there's obviously one sort of going into the sort of valuation side of things. Like, I mean, just looking back throughout history, right? You have like a sort of 1999, 2000 sort of like tech sort of run up." }, { "i": 189, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "And what happened in that sort of time period before the dot com crash is a lot of like infrastructure products, products like sort of ran up and became the most, oh, this is like the bedrock for the next civilization, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But then what happened?" }, { "i": 190, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "They all crashed and went to zero. And who are the biggest companies now? It's Google, it's Meta, it's like obviously Amazon. And what do they do? They control the full stack." }, { "i": 191, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "And the truth is, if you control the end user, what the user is using underneath the hood is completely irrelevant, as long as it's a good experience, right? Like, I'm actually like a massive bear on decentralization. I think it's the biggest crap ever." }, { "i": 192, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "Like, I generally, I generally don't believe in it. I mean, the only thing I care about, the point I mentioned is user experience. If you have the best possible user experience, then nobody cares if the chain is decentralized or the sort of stuff." }, { "i": 193, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "Is it reasonable that the activity moves up to Solana, which is arguably quite centralized compared to Ethereum, because the user experience on Ethereum is fucking dog shit." }, { "i": 194, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "Like, that's the truth, right? And that's why Solana has grown to an extent it has. So the only thing which matters is the end user. And that's what allows you to sort of build an extremely valuable business in the long term." }, { "i": 195, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "So, yeah. Okay. So, I mean, you've got the trading terminal, you've got the launchpad, you've got the DEX, which you guys built. The one thing that's missing from the pie at the moment feels like it's perps." }, { "i": 196, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "Like, is there a plan for Pump.fun to do some kind of perps because perps is... Look, we're always considering stuff, but I actually find perps to be a pretty boring business." }, { "i": 197, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "I don't think perps are doing anything special. I think perps are like, if you look at perps, it's like the most competitive space in the entire industry, right?" }, { "i": 198, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "Like every single big player with not billions of dollars, but like tens of billions, like hundreds billions is competing in this space for perps, right? So the question is, like, why go into like a..." }, { "i": 199, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "Why does it make sense to go compete in this space? Why does it make sense to go compete in that avenue when you can sort of grow your own pie? And like, I think I made a tweet about this recently as well. Like the revenue on chain, again, not off chain." }, { "i": 200, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "Obviously, the off-chain exchanges are extremely large and the biggest businesses in crypto. But on chain, the revenue made for sort of meme coins is way, way, way larger than it is for perps in general, right?" }, { "i": 201, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "Like, I think people need to understand that this meme coin stuff is extremely sustainable. And why not aim for a monopoly in a market you own and then you can grow the size of the market instead of trying to sort of... sort of latch on and become competitive with another one." }, { "i": 202, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "So, yeah. So, okay, cool. Let's talk about the market cap. You spoke about market cap going from 2 billion to 100 billion. And the way that I see it is that the only way that you can get from 2 billion to 100 billion is to create a network." }, { "i": 203, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "In other words, something that has real network effects where every additional user adds value to network exponentially, right? When I look at a meme coin launchpad, I know that that's stripping it down to its like barest, barest, barest bones." }, { "i": 204, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "There's no network effect. There's no network effect in a launchpad." }, { "i": 205, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "Disagree. Nonsense. Not true. Absolutely not true. Okay, tell me why. So, because why did you buy Bitcoin?" }, { "i": 206, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "Because of the network effects." }, { "i": 207, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "No, no. Why? If you go back to its most rudimentary form, why did you or anyone else buy Bitcoin?" }, { "i": 208, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "Okay, going back to its rudimentary form, because it was a scarce, a limited supply asset." }, { "i": 209, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "Yeah, but okay, but okay, but who told you that? People. Community. People." }, { "i": 210, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "People that I trust, yeah." }, { "i": 211, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "People, like people online or your friends in person. Yes. So, every coin you bought, you always buy it because your buddy tells you to buy it, right?" }, { "i": 212, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "Yes, yes." }, { "i": 213, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "The truth is, it doesn't matter what Bitcoin stands for, how decentralized it is. The only reason you bought it is, is because someone else told you to buy it. That's the network effect of any coin." }, { "i": 214, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "That's the reason why crypto exists as a whole is because the whole, the whole thing is like, oh, my Hyperliquid bags. Oh, my Cardano bags. Like, buy my coin, buy my coin." }, { "i": 215, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "Then you get, oh, you have to buy your coins. What, what the meme coin launchpad is, it's not a meme coin launchpad, it's a coin launchpad. And it allows anyone to have that same experience of launching their own Bitcoin." }, { "i": 216, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "And then telling their buddies to buy in and then them buying in. But the difference is, I go to my buddies now and tell them to buy Bitcoin. It's not going to move the price of Bitcoin." }, { "i": 217, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "But if I go tell them to buy into my coin on, on Pump.fun or anyone's coin Pump.fun, realistically, it's going to move the market. And what does that mean? It's like that is literally network effects because you make money, the more people invest." }, { "i": 218, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "And it's very unlike Polymarket because Polymarket does not benefit with each additional user on the platform. Neither does prediction markets. When prediction, you, you, you, sorry, I'm being cool." }, { "i": 219, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "I need to hang up here. There's no incentive for you to. Um, uh, there's absolutely no incentive for you to, uh, tell people that you've opened a trade on Polymarket." }, { "i": 220, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "Because if you tell people and people believe your trade, the money you make actually goes down, right? Like it's, it's literally negative EV to tell other people about it. The same with Polymarket." }, { "i": 221, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "Why are you telling people about your Polymarket position? It's just not plus EV that those products don't have network effects." }, { "i": 222, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "The meme coin launchpad itself, because you're directly incentivized to share from the top of the biggest group possible that you bought this coin because everyone else will buy into it." }, { "i": 223, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "So. I. Strongly. Disagree when the product and network. Like, and then." }, { "i": 224, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "I actually think, I think you agree. I think that the thing that has the network effect is the social network around the meme, the, the, the coin launchpad. So, and that's really what I think. That's what I picked up an app." }, { "i": 225, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "Like the app for me is the ultimate social experience because it's people just telling you, I bought this. I took a, I took a punt on this. Uh, they had a, they had like, they were using cool. I called it at three K." }, { "i": 226, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "Uh, what, what is this call out runner? Damn. She's so hot. I'm going to take the L. That's what's going on in the app yet. And I think that that's a network effect." }, { "i": 227, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "I agree with you, but a hundred percent, but even without that, just like look at Twitter, right? What does the network effect? Oh, like you tweeted about buying this coin. That's a network effect itself." }, { "i": 228, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "Like it doesn't have to be the sort of social layer on it. That's obviously the value you can build on top of it, which provides additional value to everyone involved. But it's also just the rudimentary thing." }, { "i": 229, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "I bought a coin and the most natural thing is you obviously tell your buddies, you also want to buy the coin just like any other coin." }, { "i": 230, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "Like it's, it's bullish by the point by the point, like even the investors were talking about, they were probably telling you that they were sort of bullish on the coin. What is that? It's just network effects because they want. To buy in after you so that their bags become more valuable." }, { "i": 231, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "That's the truth. And that's like the most basic form of human nature. I think that's what sort of the Pump.fun launchpad really, really tapped into." }, { "i": 232, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "So I must say, I must say, I think that the network effect here, the thing that excites me as the network effect through the social element of what you guys have created, you've created the ultimate dopamine machine and it's all around money, which makes it even better because in dopamine you need motivation and reward." }, { "i": 233, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "And here the reward is actually financial. So it's, it's, it's an amazing thing. And I think that that's, that's the, the social network is the actual network. effect. The launchpad is just the, the, it's the mechanism that, that, that makes it work." }, { "i": 234, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "And the part that excites me is actually, it seems to me like you're getting the social network, right? You're in the early stages, but it seems to me like you're starting to get the social network, right? Which by the way, is something that I haven't seen in crypto yet." }, { "i": 235, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "I don't think anybody except potentially you guys, and only because I saw the app, which is why I wanted to have this interview with you. I think you're the first guys that have actually got the social dopamine, the social network dopamine, right?" }, { "i": 236, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "Around crypto. There isn't a single other app and probably the only other app that could do it would be Twitter." }, { "i": 237, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "If they did a little bit more around what you did and actually allowed people to launch coins and trade coins directly from Twitter. Exactly." }, { "i": 238, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "But just to give some back up this, everyone listening, download the phone, open the feed, see what it's like. But the interesting thing here is people are talking about the small coins, but right now on the app, you can already speak about the big coins." }, { "i": 239, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "And the next step of this, why can't you speak about your prediction market positions? Why can't you speak about your perpetual futures positions? Why can't you speak about your RWA positions? It all becomes united and this social thing will eat the entire market." }, { "i": 240, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "There's no reason to trade anywhere else because the only reason you buy coins or open positions is people that tell you to be bullish on it." }, { "i": 241, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "And the Pump.fun app is going to be the place to do that. So for me, the social positions, the social thing here is what takes you from $2 billion to $100 billion." }, { "i": 242, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "Because it's much more fun than being on Meta. It's much more fun than being on Instagram. It's just it's a lot more fun. As I said, I spent an afternoon on this thing and I'm addicted." }, { "i": 243, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "I can't wait to go back and see what people are making money. And when they do make money, it makes me want to go and press the button because I want to follow them." }, { "i": 244, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "Right. And copy trade them and do all that sort of stuff." }, { "i": 245, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "So, yeah. Yeah. Anything else that you think gets you between $2 billion and $100 billion? Because I actually believe that, you know, if there is an app right now that may have a chance, it may be you guys." }, { "i": 246, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "What else is there that you think that you guys have got up your sleeve that could help you get there?" }, { "i": 247, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "I think it's just relentless execution and experimentation, right? It's always like building this sort of thing which makes sense. What is the next thing which could get users? What is the next application which could sell? If we go back to my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk, my previous talk," }, { "i": 248, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "um doing stuff like that obviously increased trust getting people to sort of understand there's actually a team behind this and it's not just like weird sketchy sketchy team doing doing weird stuff and like just like building like that sort of human connection which sort of allows people to like buy in understand what's going on and tell their friends about it and actually explain that this is a very very strong business which is happening beneath the scenes um and then just like yeah obviously using the cash in the foundation and advising the foundation to make good acquisitions right this is a hell of a lot of money if you can buy businesses which either make" }, { "i": 249, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "more money which work in tandem with the current current products or are just completely different as a whole but can still about add value to that to the whole ecosystem makes a lot of sense right and that's some of the biggest ways these like companies and for example looking at meta which like bought instagram bought whatsapp all this sort of stuff you have to you have to find the next thing and not necessarily sort of build it and with a large cash reserves like that the foundation can definitely be advised and sort of then you make decisions to buy some of these larger stuff so yeah how big are you in asia i mean i know i know you can't tell directly from" }, { "i": 250, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "itself but i think now you bet you're starting to understand who your users are how big is your user base in asia is this is this a way to leave it right 20 i think yeah i think Pump.fun is definitely a more western product i think there's like a decent asian presence for sure and growing i mean is there is because because asia are the real degens for sure um well i mean i i agree i agree and disagree right i think like sports betting in the us some of the largest uh is one of the largest markets in the whole in the whole world um so again it's again it's very very hard to track because again the Pump.fun is like a big part of the market but i think it's a big part of the" }, { "i": 251, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "market so it's hard to track people's kycs and stuff so it's hard and obviously a lot of asia has uh crypto sort of banned right so it's hard to track the sort of real usage um i believe it's around 20 to 25 but that sort of share of the total market is pretty stable so amazing no listen it's been it's been amazing speaking to you i must say like for me the the social network is the part that excites me the most and as i said the reason is because i think that network effects is what gets you from two to a hundred billion and this is the closest thing that i've seen like the the app desktop's great but the app is the closest thing that i've seen no no that's the thing because" }, { "i": 252, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "everyone every single person has a mobile phone in their pocket they can pull it out they can start trading instantly the Apple Pay feature we were talking about like that's really how you get to like a really massive scale user base yeah the Apple Pay feature just for those of you want to know it's uh you can actually deposit money onto the app there's a button that says deposit you basically click on deposit and um you can see it says you can deposit using your your actual Apple Pay double click and you can actually get money into the thing here um yeah for those of you who soon let's take off the avatar and let's maybe meet Noah." }, { "i": 253, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "I mean, I know you, but let's maybe meet like the real guy behind it." }, { "i": 254, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "No, for sure, for sure. Yeah, I think again, maybe not, sometime soon I'm sure the founders will dox. So I think that we are working on that as well, but obviously there's big consequences for doing that just in real life and stuff." }, { "i": 255, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "Just, I'm interested to know, like what is the reason for being doxed? Like when I say doxed, you guys are pretty much semi-doxed. And when I say semi-doxed, your investors know who you are." }, { "i": 256, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "Your investors have all seen your face, et cetera. The big public hasn't seen it. What is the reason that you guys are so keen to stay doxed?" }, { "i": 257, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "I mean, the truth is I'm 22 years old, right? I don't really want to be able to walk around neither sort of New York, London, wherever I am and have people approach me and just like, sort of like, just like speak to me in general. I'd rather just have like, be able to live a quiet life and sort of relax on one front." }, { "i": 258, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "That's the first thing. Second thing, there's obviously like a massive security risk. Like people know, obviously the platform is making a lot of money and has like a highly traded sort of token stuff. And then we've become sort of a sort of obvious target." }, { "i": 259, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "So it becomes a lot easier as a sort of target as we already have like security and stuff like that. So it's just like a, it's just like a sort of a peace of mind thing. I think we usually get to like a larger scale and sort of become bigger before that sort of decision is basically made." }, { "i": 260, "speaker": "Noah Tweedale", "text": "So." }, { "i": 261, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "Fair point, fair point. And I get it. Brother, thank you very much. Good to have you on. I'll see you again soon. Hopefully you'll keep updating us, keep telling us what's going on. Anyway, I'm going to go play on the app." }, { "i": 262, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "You guys should probably do the same. Yeah, guys, let me know what you, let me know what you thought of that interview. of Noah from Pump.fun. Next time I'll try and get him to show his face. This time he was really, he's not ready to show us who he is yet." }, { "i": 263, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "But let me know what you think. As I say, again, not a sponsored interview at all. Just interesting to know, you know, when you have a chart that pretty much does this and you kind of, look, you know that I've been digging and I know what's happening in the background." }, { "i": 264, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "I just thought, you know, let me give the guys a microphone because you guys need to know what we know and why we've been like pretty bullish around Pump.fun. And it's actually paid off here." }, { "i": 265, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "I will see you guys again pretty soon. Maybe tomorrow. Until then, trade well, my friends." } ]