[
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "Not you, know, that Bitcoin has lost nearly half of its value since peaking at at 126,000 in October of 2025. It hasn't closed above its 200-day moving average in 7 months."
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "We're right under that level now. Do you feel like it's poised for more of a breakout?"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "We do think that uh when we look back on this in 12 years, Bitcoin in 12 months, excuse me, Bitcoin is likely to reach its all-time high again. When you look at investor surveys around where folks"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "intend to buy, Bitcoin shows up close to the top of the list. Uh the correlations with the Nasdaq are quite high at the moment. So, I think that's one thing investors need to be aware of is that this move has been"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "turbocharged by US stocks being, you know, so resilient."
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "But, one thing that keeps us uh pretty constructive here is that there isn't much optimism in the derivatives markets, uh futures and options. It still looks to us like this is short"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "covering, uh and folks are uh paying a lot for protection. Uh so, the contrarian take to be to that would be the rally continues. So, you would give it a more of a correlation to equities"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "and more of a risk-on sentiment or maybe not since we're not seeing that options activity that would suggest that to be the case."
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "Bitcoin's correlation with the Nasdaq ebbs and flows, and right now it's at close to a 5-year high. So, if stocks were to sell off and those correlations hold, then, you know, at any given point"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "a 10% correction in Bitcoin is no big thing. We're we're used to that, but you know, I I think that's the the warning I would make, but um you never know who the next buyer is going to be. We've had uh one central"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "bank already this year that has announced that they're going to add Bitcoin to their foreign exchange reserves. That's a sea change in terms of making this asset a global settlement"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "asset that's used in trade for large-scale cross-border transactions."
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "We think that's a mega trend. So, medium-term outlook still pretty positive here. Interesting. Let's talk about flows, Saul, because you know that April was the strongest month for crypto"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "ETF inflows in 2026 so far. Spot Bitcoin ETFs pulled in roughly $2 billion."
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "Ethereum ETFs broke a 6-month outflow streak."
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "What do you think happens from here?"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "I think the influence continue. I think Matthew's exactly right that it's a mega trend. And so, the the adoption of crypto in general, the adoption of blockchain architecture into the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "traditional financial system is is accelerating at a pace that people don't understand how big it is and how fast it is. And so, there's there's a mega trend in terms of useful crypto is going to be tokens with"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "a use case with a very specific use case. They're they're going to be attractive to investors and continue to be attractive to investors. Bitcoin, of course, is is the the headliner. That"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "will always investors always have a number one interest in Bitcoin."
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "And so, I think that indexes that contain multiple cryptos are going to become more popular as well. So, I I think we're at the beginning of of this push and inflows."
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "Not We're not even close to the start."
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "Interesting. And of course, one of the big looming questions that's out there involves regulation. You both note the importance of the pending clarity act."
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "Saul, I'll I'll start with you because you report that the regulatory backdrop has really shifted meaningfully over the past month or so."
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "What do you mean by that? Why why do you feel like things have really changed in a big way? Well, I think that that again, we have an administration that's crypto-friendly. That's the number one"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "help. I think that the regulators have have found themselves. There've been a lot of cuts inside the government. I think they've they've found their way."
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "The the process that we as ETF issuers have to go through is unchanged. There's still um very uh deep scrutiny of the products that we want to list. There's a lot of pushback from the government, but they're open to"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "hearing uh new products and crypto-related products. And that's really, really important. I think the Clarity Act, whether it passes or not, um is is just a matter of the speed of of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "institutional adoption in terms of investing in crypto. In terms of institutional adoption of the blockchain, whether the Clarity Act passes, it makes no difference. That that will continue. So, a a passage of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "the Clarity Act would be wonderful. It would it would speed things up, especially from a terms of an investor inflow perspective into say ETFs, but if it doesn't pass, it's it's not the end"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "of the world. Matt, do you agree with that? Uh I mean, one reason why our On Chain Economy ETF NODE is up 75% since inception while Bitcoin is down 20% is that we focused on the companies that"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "can actually earn a cash flow from the adoption of blockchain blockchain technology. And the the big trend in the markets over the last year plus, at least in crypto land, has been the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "underperformance of these altcoins like Ethereum, like Solana, as the listed equities begin to capture uh the technology and the value from some of these blockchain solutions. So, we've"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "been, you know, very underweight altcoins in within NODE, and the uh the passage of the Clarity Act, I think, is a major question mark that could reignite some animal spirits in that"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "space, but we're still pretty cautious on this altcoin market. I I would uh I think the investor protections that are still yet to be worked out keep a lot of institutions on the sideline. If"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "Clarity passes, that might be a you know, a time to even buy higher if the details will matter there. Uh but we've been calling Bitcoin dominance higher, outperformance of Bitcoin miners because"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "of the AI convergence, and I'm still sticking with that trade and have not really pivoted to these alts. Saul, what about XRP in relation to Bitcoin and Ethereum?"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "Well, it's got a it's got a use case, a very specific use case, and more in particular, the XRP ledger has a use case. So, Ripple, the company, has as its 13- or 14-year mission, however long"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "it's been, to move internationally value, okay? And primarily money. And so, their chain, their XRPL chain, will be used for that. Um XRP is a part is a tool on that chain. And so,"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "all of that will be used as it grows."
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "And so, that's all being built out. It won't be the only thing, as Ripple itself says to people all the time."
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "We're They're not going to be the only participant in this. But, the it's so big, you have to liken this whole thing to the internet in the '90s, truly. And so, that's where we are. We're We're in"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "the '90s. We don't really know the the technologies that will even come out of the use of the blockchain and the built these build-outs that are happening. We just know what's here now and the things"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "that are growing now. Does that mean you think it's a bubble? Uh it's not even close to a bubble. No. So, not even close."
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": ">> close. The '90s as it pertains to just I I mean the I mean the use of the internet. So, if you take the take the uh the frothiness out, okay? I mean the development of the internet as a tool"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "for business and every person in the world, that's that's happening with the blockchain, and we're just at the very beginning of that. All right. Um what about other infrastructure plays?"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "Matt, what are you seeing in terms of uh just additional opportunities as it pertains to this ecosystem? Yeah, I I mean, where we've done best this year is in investing around the infrastructure"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "required to run the Bitcoin network. So, it Bitcoin is famously pretty energy intensive, uh and we noticed a few years ago that if you read the conference calls of the even the publicly traded"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "utilities, they were starting to call out Bitcoin mining as a driver of the underlying load growth. So, we realized that these Bitcoin miners were actually sitting on one of the key bottlenecks of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "the AI trade. They have a long history of developing these power assets and bringing them to the market and there's a really nice reflexivity with Bitcoin and AI, which is that the more the AI"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "story gets derisked, the less Bitcoin these guys have to sell to pay for their pivots. Uh and so these miners have been big sellers of of Bitcoin over the last year. That is starting to come down"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "because the AI side of the business is on fire. So, they don't have to sell as much and that's a really virtuous cycle."
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "That's still our kind of number one exposure in the node ETF at least. And then there's kind of single stocks like a circle, like a figure that are using blockchain to speed up certain core"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "parts of the financial system in a way that's bringing down costs. And I think there'll be more losers than winners when it comes to that technology."
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "Actually, the consumer is going to be a big winner and there'll be a handful of companies that will turn from small and medium to to very large. But it's actually a The idea is to avoid the losers as much"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "as you can find those winners."
  }
]