[
  {
    "i": 0,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "Does this cycle feel different?"
  },
  {
    "i": 1,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": ">> The cycle theory has been broken."
  },
  {
    "i": 2,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "There's no direct parallel."
  },
  {
    "i": 3,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": ">> Everybody was saying the internet's dead. And while you're watching adoption go straight up, Bitcoin is as healthy."
  },
  {
    "i": 4,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "It's healthier than it's ever been."
  },
  {
    "i": 5,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": ">> When we hit 200, 300,000, that's when the countries are going to perk up."
  },
  {
    "i": 6,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "Governments will start to limit and prohibit freedom of movement. They they will just stop you from leaving. And that has been thrown out there in discourse. We're not that far from being"
  },
  {
    "i": 7,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "pods in the Matrix. It's already the matrix. It's feeding on your mind now."
  },
  {
    "i": 8,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "You are already plugged into it. You just don't know you're plugged into it."
  },
  {
    "i": 9,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": ">> AIS are just going to obliterate DeFi."
  },
  {
    "i": 10,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "Ethereum and Salana and whatever."
  },
  {
    "i": 11,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "They're all going to be just eviscerated by AI and drained of funds and they're going to either retreat to Bitcoin or they're just going to be annihilated."
  },
  {
    "i": 12,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": ">> There's a misallocation of capital, massive misallocation [music] of capital. People that don't believe in Bitcoin are probably going to be punished for not believing in Bitcoin."
  },
  {
    "i": 13,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": ">> Quick team, I'm not going to ask you to like or subscribe, but if you do want to help us keep going, share this episode with one person who you think needs to hear it. All right, so for today, we've"
  },
  {
    "i": 14,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "got two of the biggest names in Bitcoin, Samson Mount and Jet Booth, and you've never heard them like this. They [music] go off on the AI mania trap that's causing a massive misallocation of"
  },
  {
    "i": 15,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "capital. We chat about the accelerated erosion of freedoms in the real-time slide into dystopia. And we start off by exploring why Bitcoin feels like nothing we've experienced before. [music]"
  },
  {
    "i": 16,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "All right, good afternoon gentlemen."
  },
  {
    "i": 17,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "Thank you so much for joining me today."
  },
  {
    "i": 18,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "Very excited to have this conversation."
  },
  {
    "i": 19,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "I kind of wanted to kick things off with a bit of an observation I had this morning. So, thinking back during the draw down since October, we saw a whole bunch of FUD narratives hit the"
  },
  {
    "i": 20,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "mainstream. We had the quantum threat, we had the Epstein controls Bitcoin, we even had the guy from OC floating around and making the rounds some more. He resurfaced. But right now, it seems like"
  },
  {
    "i": 21,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "there's nothing, neither positive nor negative. It almost feels like the mainstream has completely forgotten about Bitcoin. So Samson, I'll start with you. Does this cycle in any way"
  },
  {
    "i": 22,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "meaningfully feel different? What's your read on the current silence?"
  },
  {
    "i": 23,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": ">> So I don't really believe in cycles. I think they're all just a coincidence."
  },
  {
    "i": 24,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "You know, it it looked a certain way for a 4-year period and then it just happened to play out similarly in a few more. But I believe the cycle theory has been broken largely because we hit an"
  },
  {
    "i": 25,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "all-time high before the having and that's never happened before. So everything that's happening now has never really been there's no direct parallel to prior times. But I I understand like people are frustrated"
  },
  {
    "i": 26,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "right now because it feels like uh we're going sideways and nothing's happening."
  },
  {
    "i": 27,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "And I think that has to do with a few reasons. One of which is it's sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy. People do believe in four-year cycles and they're thinking, well, we're going to hit a low"
  },
  {
    "i": 28,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "end of this year uh in November or something like that to match prior cycles. But if it was that easy, you know, everyone would be uh trillionaire by now. And that's just not how things"
  },
  {
    "i": 29,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "work. The other thing that I believe is um impacting price is really just the rotation into into capital right now in preparation of a few big IPOs this summer. Um SpaceX um and then a few other ones like Enthropic"
  },
  {
    "i": 30,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "I believe and maybe a few more. But I think people are trying to prepare."
  },
  {
    "i": 31,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "Maybe they're hedging against Bitcoin going down, which I don't think it will, and they're going out to cash or stables, and they want to buy the IPOs, which I don't think are is a good idea"
  },
  {
    "i": 32,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "because everyone that got in at a good price has already gotten in, and you're kind of exit liquidity. So, you know, the people that don't believe in Bitcoin are probably going to be punished for"
  },
  {
    "i": 33,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "not believing in Bitcoin, I believe."
  },
  {
    "i": 34,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": ">> Interesting. Um, Jeff, I'm curious your thoughts on maybe attention and capital rotating in. Yeah, we got SpaceX, we got OpenAI, we got Anthropic. It really seems like AI is sucking the air out of"
  },
  {
    "i": 35,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "the room, which feels kind of ironic."
  },
  {
    "i": 36,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "What's your What's your read on the situation?"
  },
  {
    "i": 37,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": ">> Yeah, similar. So, again, I'm not measuring Bitcoin in a piece of paper. I think it's a fool's errand because because you're measuring something that's being debased, you know, it has"
  },
  {
    "i": 38,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "to be debased at an exponential rate and you're choosing to measure Bitcoin in the thing that's being debased. So, so Bitcoin is measuring productivity and measuring prices falling everywhere. It"
  },
  {
    "i": 39,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "is a protocol measuring that. And so, so, but if you were measuring in pieces of paper, then you would be in every other hype cycle around and you'd be comparing to measure Bitcoin to every"
  },
  {
    "i": 40,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "other hype cycle and things that are going to blow up cascade enormously bad, right? You'd be paying at the top for for SpaceX IPO."
  },
  {
    "i": 41,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "Um and and these things these things are actually probably going to trade down in a meaningful way as as the unlock comes uh comes in and uh and people can sell their shares. So there'll be a hold"
  },
  {
    "i": 42,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "period. So these things have to get out."
  },
  {
    "i": 43,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "Open AI has to get out and the money that they're lighting on fire to be able to build these businesses can't is no sense to be able to pay pay that back."
  },
  {
    "i": 44,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "Some of these are going to collapse to the real market later on. Um, and a whole bunch of people that ported from Bitcoin to these things are going to find the money that they thought was"
  },
  {
    "i": 45,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "going to grow is going to disappear because it's all inside this kind of bubble of more and more manipulated money. Whereas Bitcoin is that thing outside of that system. But you add you"
  },
  {
    "i": 46,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "add all of what we're saying together."
  },
  {
    "i": 47,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "And so where did Bitcoin start? started from cipher punks want wanting to remove money from state right and you have and you have a lot more of those people too in Bitcoin building this protocol that's"
  },
  {
    "i": 48,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "emerging but what it would feel like in in a world that's transitioning to this is as people came into this and they didn't understand that that idea it would feel like there were fewer of those people"
  },
  {
    "i": 49,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "because they would be they would be over the noise of of altcoins and scams and this and that and every what is the Fed going to do tomorrow? What's Iran going to do tomorrow? The noise would just be"
  },
  {
    "i": 50,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "deafening from the system that everybody's measuring from that is being debased at that rate. Right? So, so, so I think Bitcoin is as healthy, it's healthier than it's ever been. it"
  },
  {
    "i": 51,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "appears that there's a smaller group of people defending it when actually there's a really great uh big group of people defending it and building on top of it and it and and it it reminds me by"
  },
  {
    "i": 52,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "the way and it in and because I was early in the internet had a business in the internet in 1999 2000 when Amazon dropped from $126 to $3, right? And our company almost failed. It was brutal,"
  },
  {
    "i": 53,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "right? And and I remember going and trying to raise capital and everybody was saying the internet's dead and well, you were watching adoption go straight up to the uh to the right. Well, they"
  },
  {
    "i": 54,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "they well people got liquidated by by by by over bidding things that weren't that didn't make sense. So I think the same thing is happening right now and it's going to that means if you're holding"
  },
  {
    "i": 55,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "Bitcoin in self-custody and you're you're going to do exceptional. I don't know when the port comes back into this and out of the other things that Samsung was talking about, but it is going to"
  },
  {
    "i": 56,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "happen."
  },
  {
    "i": 57,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": ">> Quickly, I just want to add uh one I want to double tap on one thing there as well, cuz yeah, Jeeoff, you had it was a build direct through the dotcom bubble and through the '08 crisis. I'm curious"
  },
  {
    "i": 58,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "if the AI mania is at all reminiscent of those times as well too or maybe maybe not."
  },
  {
    "i": 59,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": ">> The AI mania is it's an order of magnitude maybe orders of magnitude bigger. But if you think about global crossing 360 network, so we're laying fiber at the time."
  },
  {
    "i": 60,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": ">> Y >> um it it it rhymes a lot with that. It was actually it rhymes with the circular economy that was created there that things wouldn't fail because you needed more fiber forever"
  },
  {
    "i": 61,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "um because of the growth of the internet which caused the collapse of these valuations that were outrageous and and in some of these cases Cisco I think took 25 years to get back to the pre"
  },
  {
    "i": 62,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "pre-market price."
  },
  {
    "i": 63,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": ">> Wow."
  },
  {
    "i": 64,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": ">> Right. So, so this is this is all caused and you can see you can see it in a general condition around humanity."
  },
  {
    "i": 65,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "Everybody is short short-term betting markets everything is this how do I make more money really fast? How do I lever that money to make more money really fast? And it's all because money"
  },
  {
    "i": 66,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "is broken and they're taking more and more gambling inside the broken money to and and and it spins on itself. Now they're all inside this machine that's telling everybody who's getting rich and"
  },
  {
    "i": 67,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "they're all measuring against the richness of the broken money. And so it just it drive these cycles are so fast and they're they're happening at a crazy rate. But so AI uh it's much bigger than"
  },
  {
    "i": 68,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "what I saw in 2000. Much bigger."
  },
  {
    "i": 69,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": ">> Wow. Samson, >> there's a lot of uh inefficiencies right now and bottlenecks with um you know scaling AI inference and I think that plays into some of the hype like it appears there is more demand and more"
  },
  {
    "i": 70,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "need than the the underlying actually can support and that is true for now but these bottlenecks will remove themselves over time and you know as Jeff writes in his book a price of tomorrow it's a"
  },
  {
    "i": 71,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "technology is deflationary And I don't feel like the people that are really excited about these things are fully understanding that. Um I think a lot of Bitcoiners that are dabbling in"
  },
  {
    "i": 72,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "AI, I'm one of them. You know, there's Brad Mills, there's a whole bunch of us."
  },
  {
    "i": 73,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": ">> We we are seeing that because we value privacy, we're all focused on how you can do local inference on your own devices. And >> the technology is definitely getting to a point. It's being optimized. you can"
  },
  {
    "i": 74,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "run you can run an LLM on your MacBook at a pretty decent rate of tokens per second and that's only getting better and I don't feel like there's been a lot of optimization. It's always been"
  },
  {
    "i": 75,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "offloading the efficiencies and improvements onto raw hardware and energy consumption which is really not the way to go. So if you think like you're investing in these AI companies and the thesis is they're"
  },
  {
    "i": 76,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "going to keep on expanding power consumption, energy consumption and uh building data centers in space and all that to meet this demand. I don't think that's the right direction. I think"
  },
  {
    "i": 77,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "you're going to see a lot of optimization and you're going to see a lot of overupp come out at the end. And you know what's going to absorb that over supply? surprise, it's Bitcoin"
  },
  {
    "i": 78,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "mining because it can. And that's way that's the way it's always been. We just absorb the excess. We absorb the over supply. And the interesting horse in this race right now, I think, is SpaceX"
  },
  {
    "i": 79,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "because they actually have Bitcoin on balance sheet, right? So, it's like they're well positioned to weather this, more well positioned than I would say the other ones like Open AAI and"
  },
  {
    "i": 80,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "Entropic, which are just kind of pure play betting on this uh ex non-stop expansion and they don't have Bitcoin."
  },
  {
    "i": 81,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "But again, it plays all it all interplays at a very subtle level. I think eventually some of these companies will start to allocate to Bitcoin just to hedge, right? you can grow, but if"
  },
  {
    "i": 82,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "you're growing and you're keeping your money in fiat as a melting ice cube, then that's not really getting you anywhere. Same story with Nvidia. You know, they're making a lot of money, but"
  },
  {
    "i": 83,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "they're still storing it in a defective medium. If you saw AI as a company like Amazon and it was going to be controlled by a central company like Amazon, it might make sense at these valuations."
  },
  {
    "i": 84,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "I think that is a crazy wrong bet. AI is more like electricity that is going to distribute and more and more people because once you have the model you can the model becomes open source like two weeks later they reverse"
  },
  {
    "i": 85,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "engineer it. You can run it on your computer you might have a lag of three months between the latest model and what's available. Um uh and so it's constantly getting better and better and"
  },
  {
    "i": 86,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "cheaper and and so what's going to happen is instead of using a centralized model where you somebody else has all your data, you're going to do exactly what uh Samson did because the free"
  },
  {
    "i": 87,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "market you'll you'll do it cheaper, better, faster, and it'll be private."
  },
  {
    "i": 88,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "It'll be private. You'll have all this all the stuff. So there's a I think there's a misallocation of capital, massive misallocation of capital with a belief that these are these are these"
  },
  {
    "i": 89,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "are resilient companies like the tech monopolies which will not look like that."
  },
  {
    "i": 90,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": ">> Yeah, there are I'd never considered that because right now I'm thinking about like what is it like uh Marathon, Terraolf, who else? It seems like all the big ASIC publicly traded miners have"
  },
  {
    "i": 91,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "pivoted to doing AI. they've been were doing AI and switching because they're essentially just what is it like electricity arbitrage they got good contracts that's essentially what"
  },
  {
    "i": 92,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "they're selling but I never thought about the possibility of the hardware kind of becoming uh redundant or unnecessary if the models get good enough that everyone's in it's almost like to take a silly analogy it's almost"
  },
  {
    "i": 93,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "like music's gotten very popular so they're just investing in like how to produce more CDs faster not realizing that like they're not going to need CDs very soon >> is a good analogy now the the other"
  },
  {
    "i": 94,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "thing though in the meantime I think this could go on for some I'm on the board of Core Scientific and I think it could go on for for longer than people think because because these contracts"
  },
  {
    "i": 95,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "for the energy are like 10 or 15 years long-term contracts with the hyperscalers and they need the and and like Samson said there's pockets of the market that you're short energy for this"
  },
  {
    "i": 96,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "and you're having to bid this up and sign secure contracts out a long time."
  },
  {
    "i": 97,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "So there is a lot of there is potential lot of value capture in in the medium term in this but kind of in the end this is going to constantly get cheaper better faster."
  },
  {
    "i": 98,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "That's incredible. That's wonderful."
  },
  {
    "i": 99,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "Samson, I did want to jump back to one thing quickly because I did want to get your take on it as well. The idea So Jeff was commenting how there's there's more of us actually here but we're just"
  },
  {
    "i": 100,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "kind of drowning a lot of noise that makes it maybe hard to see at times. Is that kind of your sense too? because I definitely feel like we're losing comrades every now and then that there's"
  },
  {
    "i": 101,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "maybe less and less of the cipher punks."
  },
  {
    "i": 102,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "Maybe I'm just not hearing us and it is just the noise. But I'd be love to get your sense of that."
  },
  {
    "i": 103,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": ">> I think the the the the army of builders is actually getting bigger. I think Jeeoff you alluded to that too, but it it might feel sometimes like we're losing people like some prominent person"
  },
  {
    "i": 104,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "says something, but the actual people building and sticking to Bitcoin, it's it seems pretty stable to me. And it feels like we're actually getting more and more builders and we're able to"
  },
  {
    "i": 105,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "accelerate a lot of our development through the use of AI tools too. So I believe it's it it's actually going to get better and better as um we all adapt and adapt integrate AI technologies into"
  },
  {
    "i": 106,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "our workflows because we can build faster and there's more of us building and the barrier to building is actually lower too. So, if you have the people with the right ideology, then you're"
  },
  {
    "i": 107,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "going to have a massive um workforce that is going to make Bitcoin better and integrate Bitcoin into the mainstream economy better."
  },
  {
    "i": 108,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": ">> That I'm excited for that the the the Bitcoin return to mainstream kind of economy, I think, is a is where the attention needs to be. I think it'll be a wonderful place to see some growth."
  },
  {
    "i": 109,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "I'm kind of curious, Samson, you you'd gallivant all over the world and try to orange peel people and do a wonderful job doing it, too. Where are you currently seeing adoption? And similarly"
  },
  {
    "i": 110,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "within this topic, you mentioned that SpaceX has Bitcoin on their balance sheet. I find it kind of odd that something like Anthropic or OpenAI doesn't because it seems to me like going back to Jeff Boo's thesis about"
  },
  {
    "i": 111,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "deflationary technology versus an inflationary money. I kind of feel like they should be the first ones to figure it out. Like they might realize kind of what they're building and the"
  },
  {
    "i": 112,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "deflationary impacts that it'll have moving forward. But I don't know. What's your thoughts on the corporate adoption, nation state adoption? What are you seeing? Well, nation states are really"
  },
  {
    "i": 113,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "challenging and that's something we we've been learning firsthand for the last few years. We can get meetings, but to get the understanding of Bitcoin through and to find the right timing to"
  },
  {
    "i": 114,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "do so where a government is conductive to and able to execute is a very challenging thing. So, we're always talking. We're working on um projects with governments, but it's really slow"
  },
  {
    "i": 115,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "to get it out the door. And the biggest barrier I think is they seem they seem to not really understand the gravity of the situation and the urgency to implement a strategy. And that's just"
  },
  {
    "i": 116,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "because everyone is busy with everything else. It's a direct parallel to your ordinary person. Like if you choose your neighbor um you know one of your neighbors and you try to orange pill"
  },
  {
    "i": 117,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "them that's kind of like what it's like for us. They have their life they have their um you know their work they have their hobbies and where do you fit Bitcoin in? You know between which"
  },
  {
    "i": 118,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "Netflix show do you fit Bitcoin? So that's the challenge. Yeah, Samson, I just want to build on that because I it's the same thing I've seen in a lot of this ex exactly the same. This is"
  },
  {
    "i": 119,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "such a paradigm shift and the thing that's driving all the constraints and government and and breaking of society and all of those people needing more money is just the the MPs, politicians"
  },
  {
    "i": 120,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "are like dividing."
  },
  {
    "i": 121,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "I'm all of these people need help. All these people need help. puts it and you're getting socialism and fascism and they're driving further and further around and you go in with something"
  },
  {
    "i": 122,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "that's doesn't care about any of it and it's something totally different. It's it's like their story is completely different. And so so so if if I inserted a story like if you had a story around"
  },
  {
    "i": 123,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "it's the Democrats, those are the bad guys or it's the Republicans around the bad guy and I inserted my my thing here's what I'm going to do. It's way easier to believe the thing than Bitcoin"
  },
  {
    "i": 124,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "could solve it all. Right? It's way easier to we we align around these stories and you hear something that's totally outside of this narrative."
  },
  {
    "i": 125,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "It takes a long time for somebody to understand it and then have have the will to uh to want to do it. I actually can't imagine like I credit you Samson for trying and pushing pushing that"
  },
  {
    "i": 126,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "forward but in a whole bunch of different places but like I it's it's a total battle. I just I same thing I realized there's no way I can do this here. I'm going to just go build I'm"
  },
  {
    "i": 127,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "going to go like I'm going to fund the builders who are going to build the new system and people will get it in their own time."
  },
  {
    "i": 128,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "Yeah, it's definitely disheartening sometimes, but you just have to keep at it. And I think they will get it eventually. But it's sort of, you know, we're we've been talking a lot about AI."
  },
  {
    "i": 129,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "It's sort of the same thing when it's when AI is hot and everyone wants in, then it's it's a very viable topic. You know, you bring up AI and people will listen because everyone wants AI to AI"
  },
  {
    "i": 130,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "AI companies to go there or set up a data center or something there. And it'll be the same for Bitcoin, but I think it'll be when we hit uh 200 300,000, that's when the countries are"
  },
  {
    "i": 131,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "going to perk up and go, \"Hey, actually, we're interested in this now.\" Right?"
  },
  {
    "i": 132,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "It's like all of the memes, they're all true. Like the meme of like the the little comic about the two two booths and like Bitcoin at 70K, no one is there, but at Bitcoin at 120, there's a"
  },
  {
    "i": 133,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "long line up there, right? It's it's exactly the same. It's like a fundamental truth that people want when it want something when it's hot but not when it's um an understated underhyped thesis and that's just the"
  },
  {
    "i": 134,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "way the world works. It seems the other counterforce I feel like it's the um the difficulty to adopt Bitcoin. So I was in the UK I I was visiting parliament. I was visiting uh one of the MPs there and"
  },
  {
    "i": 135,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "we sat down to a session and some of the other MPs on the floor were discussing inflation and they're saying, you know, people in my my my district are suffering and inflation's out of"
  },
  {
    "i": 136,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "control. And you know, I wanted to just shout and say, well, guess what? You could uh implement a Bitcoin strategy."
  },
  {
    "i": 137,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "But to do that is actually very difficult. It's like, you know, Nathan, take your neighbor as an example. Let's say they're complaining about inflation and the cost of living."
  },
  {
    "i": 138,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "your answer is going to be you should cut your spending, save in Bitcoin, and you'll get a reward later."
  },
  {
    "i": 139,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "But that doesn't really solve their problem. They want immediate gratification and immediate solutions."
  },
  {
    "i": 140,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "And that's the direct parallel again to the nation state, which is the nation states are mostly in debt, right?"
  },
  {
    "i": 141,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "They're maybe one or two, they're not, but the every country is basically broke if you look at it that way. And what is the solution? How do you get Bitcoin?"
  },
  {
    "i": 142,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "This is why the US is trying to frame it as uh budget neutral, right? They want to acquire Bitcoin without spending money because it's not palatable to the population to say we're going to invest"
  },
  {
    "i": 143,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "in this thing because you know that they're going to get blasted for it by opposition, by media, by the haters, the no coiners, the Financial Times, you know, all those the usual suspects"
  },
  {
    "i": 144,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "because it is a choice that is a weakness especially if Bitcoin goes down post purchase and not every government politician is able to weather that because it's difficult to weather that,"
  },
  {
    "i": 145,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "you your your job basically depends on other people approving of you and people don't approve of number go down. So you can see how challenging it is. It's layers upon layers of challenges. But I think"
  },
  {
    "i": 146,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "when it's time it'll just happen. And that's why I really subscribe to that sudden gradually then suddenly thesis."
  },
  {
    "i": 147,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": ">> Jeff, I'm curious your thoughts on that."
  },
  {
    "i": 148,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "The other one I throw in there cuz Samson I I completely agree. I feel like we're kind of hanging out here until one of two forces. Straight up number go up."
  },
  {
    "i": 149,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "Number grub just attracts everybody."
  },
  {
    "i": 150,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "They see it. It gets all the attention."
  },
  {
    "i": 151,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "They get excited. They come in and hopefully they learn something and stick around for the mission. The other concern, too, is that we're all we're all Canucks here. It wasn't so great a"
  },
  {
    "i": 152,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "few years back. We had the trucker protest and the COVID lockdowns. I worry that the the pain mechanism, the the I'm in so much pain, I go and learn about it happens as well, too. That we might see"
  },
  {
    "i": 153,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "things in the West continue to decline."
  },
  {
    "i": 154,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "We might see a bit of unrest or even we're talking really about privacy, further clampdowns on rights, freedoms, all that sort of thing. So Jeff, your thoughts on maybe where you see the West"
  },
  {
    "i": 155,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "currently headed and if adoption is going to need kind of one of those two two elements."
  },
  {
    "i": 156,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": ">> So let's skip Bitcoin for a second, right? Just completely take it out of our thing and say the existing system is based on a mirage of debt that people believe is repayable that it's not"
  },
  {
    "i": 157,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "repayable. It's just an illusion. And all of their assets and everything, every asset we're talking about is inside that illusion of this debt is repayable. And it's only repayable if"
  },
  {
    "i": 158,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "you don't allow the free market to work because the free market allows is productivity gains flow to society in the form of of competition with each other to provide more value. So it only"
  },
  {
    "i": 159,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "works with greater centralization and greater taking of your individual rights of freedoms no matter what socialism or fascism. It only works by that illusion of debt which you think is solvent and"
  },
  {
    "i": 160,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "all of the assets inside it that you think are so I know you guys are Bitcoiners so your assets aren't inside it but anything inside it your house your car your all of your right to"
  },
  {
    "i": 161,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "privacy and everything else lives inside a system based on an illusion that that is solvent. It is an illusion. It's insolvent. It only gu it only creates the illusion from your willingness to to"
  },
  {
    "i": 162,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "transact in that currency and be stolen from greater and greater and greater. And because your story is aligned with prices always go up, right?"
  },
  {
    "i": 163,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "And you would your story would naturally fit into the illusion, you can be stolen from more and more and more and not know that it's happening to you until it's way too late. So forget Bitcoin for a"
  },
  {
    "i": 164,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "second. just that no matter what, pain is coming at a crazy rate because it's not solvent and it can only be solvent and a theft of more of your time and energy and you're giving all of your"
  },
  {
    "i": 165,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "time and energy to the system that's stealing it. Right? So, so that is going to create a cascade of it's going to this story that people have is going to be so broken and so hurt there."
  },
  {
    "i": 166,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "Sometimes in in Canada the house might be taken back, right?"
  },
  {
    "i": 167,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": ">> Yeah."
  },
  {
    "i": 168,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": ">> It's going to be redistributed. It's going to be like the the your belief that you live in a free market is a complete illusion ba based on that and it's going to crash into your belief is"
  },
  {
    "i": 169,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "going to hit physics. It's going to hit the real reality."
  },
  {
    "i": 170,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": ">> Yeah."
  },
  {
    "i": 171,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": ">> Um and it's going to it's going to just shatter people and a bunch of the bunch of those people have already left Canada like myself, right? And and they're going to leave other regions that aren't"
  },
  {
    "i": 172,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "free markets and it's going to cascade around the world. Now you introduce Bitcoin that's we know that that's instability. This in the stability the instability isn't being caused by"
  },
  {
    "i": 173,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "Bitcoin. The instability is being caused by debt that is already insolvent that has to grow greater in solveny and centralized faster and faster. Right?"
  },
  {
    "i": 174,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "Control you within it. Bill C22. All >> but again, we we react to these things like they're big things when we know they have to happen. Like I don't react."
  },
  {
    "i": 175,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "They have to happen from a structure that steals your time and energy. It's not good, bad, and everything else. If you're operating in that structure, all of these things have to happen like"
  },
  {
    "i": 176,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "they've happened in other nations before, right? And people get to now you operate Bitcoin that is outside of that system. If you hold self-custody, if you run a node, you're a part of a network"
  },
  {
    "i": 177,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "that is outside of that system and you can spend in that. You can add privacy to Bitcoin already. You can build to build on top of this and you're completely outside of that system. and"
  },
  {
    "i": 178,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "you watch what's going to happen in the system. You know for sure what's going to happen in that system and you try to tell people to move their time, but they're mostly operating trying to make"
  },
  {
    "i": 179,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "more money within that system, right?"
  },
  {
    "i": 180,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "And so of course it's going to look like this and and then if you now inserted um I'm going to give you a yield."
  },
  {
    "i": 181,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "A lot of people trade their Bitcoin for the yield and they would centralize their Bitcoin back into the centralized structure, right? So, so this has to play. Why this has to play out like this"
  },
  {
    "i": 182,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "is it has to it's it's not Bitcoin that's a change. It's us."
  },
  {
    "i": 183,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "You can completely right now anyone on this that's watching this podcast can go run a node, not trust anything I'm saying. Go run a node and and go into self-custody of Bitcoin and be outside"
  },
  {
    "i": 184,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "of what I just described. protect themselves, protect themselves and be and then any type of change to Bitcoin has to go through their node. They are an essentially they've t claimed their"
  },
  {
    "i": 185,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "agency, but most people aren't. It's somebody else. It's easier to it's somebody else."
  },
  {
    "i": 186,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "Elon will save me."
  },
  {
    "i": 187,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "This politician will save me. This will and they're stuck inside inside that system. So, but they don't have to be."
  },
  {
    "i": 188,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "is going to um in other words playing this out how early what we're talking about is how many people have truly claimed their agency and are building in this now it's a it's a big number today"
  },
  {
    "i": 189,
    "speaker": "Speaker 4",
    "text": "but it's a really small percentage of the overall population means you can see the chaos that's coming >> when I first got into Bitcoin I was overwhelmed [music] the jargon the security risks the fear"
  },
  {
    "i": 190,
    "speaker": "Speaker 4",
    "text": "that one mistake could cost everything I remember staring at my screen and wondering, are my keys safe? Did I do this right? That experience is why I started BTC Sessions. For over a decade,"
  },
  {
    "i": 191,
    "speaker": "Speaker 4",
    "text": "this channel has helped millions of people like you learn how to use and secure Bitcoin. But I realized something. For many people, videos aren't enough. Everyone learns differently. Some need to ask questions"
  },
  {
    "i": 192,
    "speaker": "Speaker 4",
    "text": "in real time as an expert walks through their [music] setup, their goals, and their threat model. And certain things like advanced cold storage, inheritance planning, privacy, and node or mining"
  },
  {
    "i": 193,
    "speaker": "Speaker 4",
    "text": "setups [music] often can't be fully solved by watching another tutorial. So, I built BTC Mentor. I recruited the best Bitcoin educators on the planet to work with you one-on-one. Real [music] experts, real"
  },
  {
    "i": 194,
    "speaker": "Speaker 4",
    "text": "answers, personalized, handson guidance tailored to your exact situation."
  },
  {
    "i": 195,
    "speaker": "Speaker 4",
    "text": "Whether you're brand new or building a [music] complex setup, we meet you where you're at and walk with you step by step. By the end, you don't just hope your Bitcoin is safe, you know it is. If"
  },
  {
    "i": 196,
    "speaker": "Speaker 4",
    "text": "you're ready for that level of confidence, then head to btcmentor.io and book a call with us today."
  },
  {
    "i": 197,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "Yeah, it's funny you mentioned Elon."
  },
  {
    "i": 198,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "Like he actually gave up on it, right?"
  },
  {
    "i": 199,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "he had free free like uh reign to implement the department of government efficiency did a few things and he kind of gave up because there was just no way to to fix it. The mess is too big, too"
  },
  {
    "i": 200,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "tangled and just unfixable."
  },
  {
    "i": 201,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "So it kind of makes you think like if he had that much power and latitude to try and he couldn't and he gave up and he's just going to do his own thing. You know it's pretty indicative that it is uh"
  },
  {
    "i": 202,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "it's an it is part of the system. The system itself is broken. It the brokenness is core to the system and that's why you cannot fix it."
  },
  {
    "i": 203,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": ">> Yeah. If you if you remove the fraud you have a deflationary spiral. If you is so so empire of state building was built in 13 months. You couldn't get a permit in 13 months today."
  },
  {
    "i": 204,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": ">> Yeah."
  },
  {
    "i": 205,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": ">> The So, think about how much bigger government has gotten and how worse the performance of of the what the free market looks like because Empire State Building is I recollect is still"
  },
  {
    "i": 206,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "standing, still an iconic [clears throat] building. It's not worse because it was built in 13 months. It was that's what the free market looks like compared compared to what today is"
  },
  {
    "i": 207,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "this abstract this is this extractive machine that's this regulatory burden over everything."
  },
  {
    "i": 208,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "I would add it's not just about free markets, Jeeoff. I think it's just freedom period."
  },
  {
    "i": 209,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": ">> Yeah."
  },
  {
    "i": 210,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": ">> Like I think governments will start to limit and prohibit freedom of movement."
  },
  {
    "i": 211,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "Like they they will just stop you from leaving. And that has been thrown out there in discourse. Uh we're worried about brain drain in Canada. What's the solution? We just tax the young people"
  },
  {
    "i": 212,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "an exorbitant amount so that they don't even think about leaving because they don't have the money to leave, right?"
  },
  {
    "i": 213,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "And then you know what's the next extension of that? You know, we're not that far from being pods in the matrix because that is the end state. That is the ultimate state. You know what"
  },
  {
    "i": 214,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "everyone's thinking. You know where they are physically and they can't move."
  },
  {
    "i": 215,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": ">> Yeah. It's so outrageous what you just said like that that idea that came from somebody who left Canada to go to Google who then moved to to Europe with all the wealth from Google that talks about what"
  },
  {
    "i": 216,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "Canadians should do to pay the pay their taxes and stay and stay there. And it's actually being listened to as policy."
  },
  {
    "i": 217,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "It's outrageous. It's so and and so do what I say, not what I do."
  },
  {
    "i": 218,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": ">> Yeah. But the Overton window has really shifted that it it is acceptable to theorize about restraining people from freedom period. Not just free markets, just freedom. And you know, C-22 makes"
  },
  {
    "i": 219,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "that even worse. So you can't even talk about these things potentially."
  },
  {
    "i": 220,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": ">> Well, Samson, you're seeing it. And I think I think people are saying it [clears throat] in some of the social media in some of the like they're they're being penalized for talking"
  },
  {
    "i": 221,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "about truth. They're being they're being cut off for saying something that is absolutely true or jailed for creating code or that this which creates more fear and more people that are scared to"
  },
  {
    "i": 222,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "death of stepping outside stepping outside of the control system."
  },
  {
    "i": 223,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "Yeah, there was an in there was one I was reading about in the UK where the fact that what he posted was in fact true. It was all completely true did not protect him from whatever sort of hate"
  },
  {
    "i": 224,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "speech laws they were using against him."
  },
  {
    "i": 225,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "Like that was the fact that everything that he was posting was not a lie. It wasn't misrep representative. It was true, but it still fell under the realm that he was he was prosecuted for. It's"
  },
  {
    "i": 226,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "getting absolutely ridiculous."
  },
  {
    "i": 227,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "So, so that so that ma, so that matrix idea is actually really like really tied in what Sam said is so it's already the matrix. It's feeding on your mind now."
  },
  {
    "i": 228,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "You are already plugged into it. You just don't know you're plugged into it."
  },
  {
    "i": 229,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "That's where it's it's getting into energy from you. There's a new example like some some person in I think Vancouver was sitting in a cafe and he was uh evaluated by a psychiatrist"
  },
  {
    "i": 230,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "just looking at him and apparently they deemed him to be mentally unstable and they can just arrest him for that now."
  },
  {
    "i": 231,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "So if you look at the parallels between the Matrix and in real life it's not that far away that uh psychiatrist is like an agent. they can just find you and summar summarily execute you almost"
  },
  {
    "i": 232,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "or lock you up for you know if if it is it's a lighter sentence right but the world we're in right now is is very precarious it's almost like we're teetering on the edge of this you know"
  },
  {
    "i": 233,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "dystopia it's already dystopian but even more so and more blatantly dystopian >> yeah I think I think that's the thing Samson it's I I think it's coming into view for about bunch more people but"
  },
  {
    "i": 234,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "just before you joined, Nathan and I were talking about the moving to to Florida. I have people that in Canada that think I've gone crazy. Um, and if you if you if you're here and you you"
  },
  {
    "i": 235,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "see some of the things in Canada, you go, \"How are they why aren't they rising up?\" Right? But it but there's so much manipulation in the media that that you're seeing you're seeing a reflection"
  },
  {
    "i": 236,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "of what you want to see or what but what the media wants to you to see and from from broken money it has to get worse."
  },
  {
    "i": 237,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "There has to be more and more control."
  },
  {
    "i": 238,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "So it's it is why it's so as much as that dystopia is happening what would naturally be the antidote to it where we're we're all building and why it feels so good and why it feels so"
  },
  {
    "i": 239,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "positive. It's the antidote to that thing and you're just early >> and so and that's create and that creates a ton of value by being early by being by helping what? So what does the"
  },
  {
    "i": 240,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "free market value? The free market values service of other people helping other people. If you do really great work there you do better. And so that's what we're building is all of this which"
  },
  {
    "i": 241,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "very few people see today. But it's actually the the power that gives this thing to being being early."
  },
  {
    "i": 242,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": ">> Yeah, it's interesting. Um, you know, I think Nathan, you had some questions about, you know, which country is next and whatnot, but you know, this is kind of why I think there is a high chance"
  },
  {
    "i": 243,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "that the US really does follow through with uh its plans to really fill their SPR to pass legislation that, you know, allows them to shift onto a Bitcoin standard because there really is nowhere"
  },
  {
    "i": 244,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "else to go, right? Like in Canada there the concern of the government and some people is like we're losing people to the US but if you're in the US like Jeff where else do you go you know there's"
  },
  {
    "i": 245,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "eventually nowhere else to flee to and I think it's it it is part of the um freedom is still part of the American psyche and you I think deep down they realize they need to fix the problem."
  },
  {
    "i": 246,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "They need to fix the debt problem. they need to fix the the economic rune and there's just no way around it other than Bitcoin. So I think maybe things will circle around a little bit but"
  },
  {
    "i": 247,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "eventually they have to reach that conclusion about adopting Bitcoin in a serious manner using Bitcoin as money uh and rebasing to SATs or something to eliminate the debt or at least"
  },
  {
    "i": 248,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "significantly reduce the debt because there's really nowhere to flee to, right? you can't there's nowhere else to run to. So this is where I have a little bit of a different uh so [sighs]"
  },
  {
    "i": 249,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "so we've always lived in a zero sum game and in the US the constitution created the for the best free market that ever existed and those ideas propelled the US forward because freedom of ideas had"
  },
  {
    "i": 250,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "more ideas competing to provide value to each other and that's what was really the the rise of the US until it was captured in 1913 by the Federal Reserve right to be able to create a banking"
  },
  {
    "i": 251,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "cartel over top of it which slowly essentially is trying to rip out constitutional rights. But what what the the framers of the constitution and and the and having essentially decentralized"
  },
  {
    "i": 252,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "government in 50 different states provides a real teeth to the states have power. Um that that make mean this is going to be messy, right? But but I I agree with you Samson as far as but what"
  },
  {
    "i": 253,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "would the state what would the state want rather than the states? the state would want I control currency on a new gold back for reserve which is which is bitcoin but you don't use bitcoin you"
  },
  {
    "i": 254,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "use the stable coin which gives me all of a manipulation ability around the world right that's that's I think where one side is going and and globally you have this global adoption of a protocol"
  },
  {
    "i": 255,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "that's using bitcoin as money that just that that rips that out and has the first global free market that has actually ever existed So, so I but I think it's going to be messy because I don't think I don't"
  },
  {
    "i": 256,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "think things like Clarity Act, I don't think they they might help Bitcoin go up in fe pieces of paper right away. But I think it's to try to get people to use stable coins instead of Bitcoin and to"
  },
  {
    "i": 257,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "try to slowly capture try to slowly capture what we're talking about."
  },
  {
    "i": 258,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "But I don't think I don't think it'll work because because because because to work it has to go against a global global community building something different that can't be controlled."
  },
  {
    "i": 259,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": ">> Yeah, that's interesting. Um I think people will also learn that stable coins are not permissionless. you know, they're permissionless for a time, but as that whole ecosystem matures,"
  },
  {
    "i": 260,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "eventually you'll wind up again right where you started and it'll be highly permissioned. So, I think it's it's still a net positive because when you're transacting in stables, you are learning"
  },
  {
    "i": 261,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "that mechanism of how a free flowing digital money could work. And kind of that's our hope with Aqua that you you put the stable coins there, you put Bitcoin there, and maybe they're using"
  },
  {
    "i": 262,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "it for stable coins. Maybe they're in Latin America, in Brazil, Argentina, they need it and somehow they they, you know, trip over the wire and they land in Bitcoin zone and then they understand"
  },
  {
    "i": 263,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "Bitcoin too. So it's Yeah, I can see what you're saying that >> because Yeah, because if you said said where does the interest come from? Where does the stability come from? It comes"
  },
  {
    "i": 264,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "from guaranteeing losses against Bitcoin. It comes from making more monetary units on top of a stable currency or on top of like an asset just like gold. And then what ends up happening if you do that because the"
  },
  {
    "i": 265,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "centralizing system has to centralize you have to stop people from using the other currency."
  },
  {
    "i": 266,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": ">> Mhm."
  },
  {
    "i": 267,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": ">> You so you have to be able to block them. And so more of the the these things and and I'm just talking about a structural thing that is outside of knowledge of most people. So they're"
  },
  {
    "i": 268,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "falling into these traps and and so I we we're investors and lots of companies that use stables and uh and and doing really but they're they're training as they're using stables why they need"
  },
  {
    "i": 269,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "Bitcoin."
  },
  {
    "i": 270,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": ">> Yeah."
  },
  {
    "i": 271,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": ">> Right. And so there there's just an an adoption curve that moves more people to Bitcoin. And so the and and highlighting the risks of the stables."
  },
  {
    "i": 272,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": ">> Yeah, pretty much."
  },
  {
    "i": 273,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": ">> One of the things that we we're really circling around right now that I completely agree with is the idea of Bitcoin is and used as money, right? Not necessarily a a digital asset or"
  },
  {
    "i": 274,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "something something different, but actually as money. And so Samson, starting with you, I'm kind of curious."
  },
  {
    "i": 275,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "Ben um sorry, I had Ben McKenzie still in my brain. Jeff had mentioned earlier talking about yields and other things as well too. Do you have any concerns about um let's say securitized Bitcoin"
  },
  {
    "i": 276,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "financial products as a centralizing or capture mechanism for Bitcoin? And no is a completely fine answer. I'm just curious your outlook on it."
  },
  {
    "i": 277,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": ">> I'm not too worried about it. I think some Bitcoiners are, but I think it's a natural evolution. Um similar to our nation state work, we get some criticism from Bitcoiners saying, \"Why are you"
  },
  {
    "i": 278,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "helping governments try to get Bitcoin?\""
  },
  {
    "i": 279,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "Right? But there anything that is valuable a government will want. You know, if it's not Bitcoin, it would be bottle caps, right? If it wasn't bottle caps, it'd be something else because"
  },
  {
    "i": 280,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "governments don't really create value."
  },
  {
    "i": 281,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "They extract value. And I think there there going to be these structures no matter what we do. There's going to be ETFs no matter what we do. But I think, you know, people will have to learn."
  },
  {
    "i": 282,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "Some people will learn the hard way that if you use it in this centralized system, it's not really yours. And you can keep it as a bare instrument. And all these all all of us all the builders"
  },
  {
    "i": 283,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "we are building things that will make it easier and easier for them to keep it bearer. But like Jeeoff is saying if things get bad people will learn. Sadly people have very short memories. I think"
  },
  {
    "i": 284,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "if you ask a Canadian on the street you know remember the trucker protest and freezing bank accounts."
  },
  {
    "i": 285,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": ">> I bet you they've forgotten the memory."
  },
  {
    "i": 286,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": ">> Isn't that wild? Sorry that just I had I had to jump in there. That one drives me insane. Like that was just a couple years ago and it's just business as usual. Like nobody cares. Nobody"
  },
  {
    "i": 287,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "remembers what happened. Sorry, Samson."
  },
  {
    "i": 288,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "It just it blows my mind."
  },
  {
    "i": 289,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": ">> I I personally do."
  },
  {
    "i": 290,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": ">> Oh, thank you. I'm [laughter] not I'm not alone."
  },
  {
    "i": 291,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": ">> You better."
  },
  {
    "i": 292,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": ">> Yeah."
  },
  {
    "i": 293,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": ">> Please have to continue."
  },
  {
    "i": 294,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": ">> But I mean this is the these are the masses, right? This is the the midcurve."
  },
  {
    "i": 295,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "These are the average people. And average people will do average things."
  },
  {
    "i": 296,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "They'll have average memory spans. still have average attention spans. I mean, you know, people were panicking like crazy about oil and hormones and now it's like, yeah, well, go ask someone"
  },
  {
    "i": 297,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "like what's happening now. They won't know because it's not being fed to them in the media anymore or through the algo. So, you know, people will find Bitcoin when they deserve to find Bitcoin at the prices"
  },
  {
    "i": 298,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "that Bitcoin is at that time. But it's difficult to uh to to force change and to force understanding. You have to really have been burned or be very cognizant of the world to really"
  },
  {
    "i": 299,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "understand things ahead of time."
  },
  {
    "i": 300,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": ">> Jeff, do you have a a response? What's your view on the >> th this has to look like this because it has to go through all of our biases and our frameworks of what the world look"
  },
  {
    "i": 301,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "used to look like, which was always a lie. We thought it was a free market. It wasn't a free market. We thought it was uh and and so it was always a a terrible lie, a centralizing lie that we would go"
  },
  {
    "i": 302,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "to war to reset and global conflict to reset and then start again and believe in the fairy tale we this and and do it again because people forget this has been the pattern of uh throughout"
  },
  {
    "i": 303,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "history. So with that pattern throughout history, if you understand human nature, you understand all of these things have to it just is it to for Bitcoin to with withstand all of these whether they're"
  },
  {
    "i": 304,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "attacks, whether they're centralizing, whether they're ETFs, whether the ETFs, you've given your Bitcoin to an ETF instead, you think you have Bitcoin and you have a paper claim on Bitcoin, um"
  },
  {
    "i": 305,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "you're going to eventually get wiped out, right, at some at some point because it cannot coex they cannot not coexist on on the long time on the long term because because one system gains"
  },
  {
    "i": 306,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "its gains its strength through inflation which is centralizing and one through through through through resilience to that to to neutral currency which allows productivity to flow to to to the world. So these two"
  },
  {
    "i": 307,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "systems cannot they can coexist for a time but they can only coexist for a time by by if you send so you're trading your sovereignty to the other system to get an interest rate."
  },
  {
    "i": 308,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": ">> I'll just add this. The older I get the more I believe in psycho history."
  },
  {
    "i": 309,
    "speaker": "Speaker 4",
    "text": "[laughter] >> No. Fair enough. Fair enough. Coin Kite has been in the game for years, creating hands down [music] the best and most secure hardware when it comes to securing your Bitcoin. The Cold Card Q"
  },
  {
    "i": 310,
    "speaker": "Speaker 4",
    "text": "is an absolute powerhouse and my daily driver, and it's ideal for newcomers and advanced users alike. The Tab [music] Signer gives you a lowcost, user-friendly option for those just"
  },
  {
    "i": 311,
    "speaker": "Speaker 4",
    "text": "getting started or for convenience when traveling. You can [music] head to cokite.com and use code BTC sessions for discounts or simply scan the QR code on the screen to get started right away."
  },
  {
    "i": 312,
    "speaker": "Speaker 4",
    "text": "One company I like pointing people to when they ask about Bitcoin mining is Abundant Mines. [music] They were founded by Bo and Christine Turner after losing over half a million dollars to"
  },
  {
    "i": 313,
    "speaker": "Speaker 4",
    "text": "broken promises in the mining [music] industry. And they built their hosting model to remove the usual headaches."
  },
  {
    "i": 314,
    "speaker": "Speaker 4",
    "text": "With Abundant Mines, [music] you own your machines and keep 100% of the Bitcoin you mine. There's no revenue share, no hidden ski. Pricing is simple, one flat monthly fee covers power,"
  },
  {
    "i": 315,
    "speaker": "Speaker 4",
    "text": "[music] parts, labor, and repairs. They also guarantee uptime. If a machine goes down, their hash rate redirect system routes hash power from their fleet, so earnings don't just stop. And every"
  },
  {
    "i": 316,
    "speaker": "Speaker 4",
    "text": "machine is insured at full replacement value. Everything is hosted in the US powered by hydro and mining equipment may qualify for 100% year1 bonus [music] depreciation. Learn more at"
  },
  {
    "i": 317,
    "speaker": "Speaker 4",
    "text": "abundantminds.com/essions."
  },
  {
    "i": 318,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": ">> Well, let's take an let's take an optimistic term for a second then too."
  },
  {
    "i": 319,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "So, we talked about reclaiming our agency. Jeff, you mentioned running a node, but maybe Samson, I'll start with you. If someone wanted to reclaim their agency, if they wanted to get out of the"
  },
  {
    "i": 320,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "system, what things would you recommend to them? What direction would you point them in? And I'll even tee you up a little bit. Um, you know, the dolphin card was one of my favorite things. If"
  },
  {
    "i": 321,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "we maybe could get that back at some point in time and, uh, some lightning addresses for Aqua Wallet would be very handy, too."
  },
  {
    "i": 322,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": ">> It's coming. The cards, it's difficult."
  },
  {
    "i": 323,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "Uh, we learned a lot. We learned a lot through that process. And >> they're all kind of doing creative things. We're just looking for the best, most reliable creative thing out there."
  },
  {
    "i": 324,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "But, uh, it's difficult. If you're running it over a Mastercard and Visa Rails, then eventually there's it if the program gets big enough, there's a likelihood that it could get shut down,"
  },
  {
    "i": 325,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "right? It depends on jurisdictional arbitrage and a number of factors. So, we are looking like we know people loved it and we we loved our partner for that one and you know unfortunately didn't"
  },
  {
    "i": 326,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "work but it's hard to find a reliable one that will scale. Maybe it won't scale. Maybe we'll just have to replace it every few years with the new provider. But yeah, I I think to answer"
  },
  {
    "i": 327,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "your question though to direct them, I would send them to a mobile wallet."
  },
  {
    "i": 328,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "That's that's the easiest way. The barrier and the hurdles to get to a full node running on your own computer or, you know, your node in a box, that's very far away. But if you point them to"
  },
  {
    "i": 329,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "any mobile wallet, you know, um, Aqua, I'm partial to that or Blockstream app or Bull Bitcoin, you know, this is a good starting place. they can get a taste for what it's like to transact"
  },
  {
    "i": 330,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "freely without having anyone block you or you know control you or permission you or gatekeep you and then I think from there eventually you want to migrate to a hardware wallet you know"
  },
  {
    "i": 331,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "paired with your mobile phone and then eventually you want to validate yourself but that's a long long road and this is why I think we're really early people that have reached this level of Bitcoin"
  },
  {
    "i": 332,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "understanding and the ability to be this sovereign to run your own node is not easy and I think we'll be still years away for the majority of the population to get to that point but we will get to"
  },
  {
    "i": 333,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "that point. I'm I'm confident in that."
  },
  {
    "i": 334,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": ">> Yeah, I agree with what I I agree with what Samson's uh saying. What my my view here is look at look at proof of work just like the network works you can see in people. So, so Nathan, you're working"
  },
  {
    "i": 335,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "a PTC sessions um and and and what you guys are doing to provide proof of work to a whole bunch of people. I always point people to your work because it's a cascade of knowledge and if you were"
  },
  {
    "i": 336,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "ever wrong, you would admit you where you were wrong and then make it make it right. There's there's inside a landscape of people that are doing the exact opposite. Flavor of the day,"
  },
  {
    "i": 337,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "flavor of the day, flavor of the day, flavor of the day. And so Bitcoiners have kind of been resilient and you can see the people who are saying the same thing and they've been right over and"
  },
  {
    "i": 338,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "over and over again. And so you would that's where you want to learn. You want to take signals from people that have had an integrity through the whole thing and and and and showing you how to how"
  },
  {
    "i": 339,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "to how to start, how to buy, how to self-custody, how to start, and your your website, your YouTube sessions and uh PTC sessions does a really good job of a whole bunch of free content uh for"
  },
  {
    "i": 340,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "people, but then Samson and and this entire uh this entire network of these builders, these incredible builders."
  },
  {
    "i": 341,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "They won't all be right. Not not all the businesses will succeed, but they they'll point the way to what is success and and that will just keep on emerging emerging, which is what's happening."
  },
  {
    "i": 342,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": ">> Jeeoff, are there any tools that in particular that have your attention right now? I know we've talked previously, I think it's worth highlighting, too, that like the idea that you need it to be Bitcoin to remain"
  },
  {
    "i": 343,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "secure, decentralized, and private. So, I always think that's a wonderful one to highlight. Is there anything that you think is worth mentioning in that vein or anything else that's exciting for"
  },
  {
    "i": 344,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "you? Yeah, I I think in that vein, Fetty is still early, but it's uh but it's something that you could take action on right now. You could set up your own federation and that means your"
  },
  {
    "i": 345,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "communications and your money are private. Um and I think it's going to be like you think bill C22 in Canada and what's happening in the UK. I would do that yesterday, right? I would is so"
  },
  {
    "i": 346,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "critical. That means not just your communications are private, but your communications with anybody who's added to your federation are also private."
  },
  {
    "i": 347,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "your money transfer is private and it won't be it already isn't. You're being spied on now. You're you're you're the money control is. And so it's it's really important that you like you"
  },
  {
    "i": 348,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "people wonder why there they all of a sudden see an ad for the thing they were talking about."
  },
  {
    "i": 349,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": ">> Yeah."
  },
  {
    "i": 350,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": ">> You already live there, right? You have to get your life out of there. And so some of these tools are going to be really important to uh to be able to to to do that. Obie said this thing and I"
  },
  {
    "i": 351,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "think it was really interesting. How do you gain how do you gain freedom? Either through control. You're bigger, mightier, have more money than everybody else and you're above the law or"
  },
  {
    "i": 352,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "privacy. Satoshi could be walking among us right now. Nobody knows him. So you have to have privacy."
  },
  {
    "i": 353,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "You have privacy. You have uh you you you have freedom of expression. You have everything you want. So, so you have to, so these these tools are going to become increasingly important in the world"
  },
  {
    "i": 354,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "we're moving into."
  },
  {
    "i": 355,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": ">> I completely agree, Jeeoff. What's frustrating for me is like the re there is a real need for privacy and it's been twisted by, you know, the altcoin promoters and trying to push, you know,"
  },
  {
    "i": 356,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "all privacy coins again."
  },
  {
    "i": 357,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": ">> Totally. The centralized coin."
  },
  {
    "i": 358,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": ">> Yeah. It's completely It's like there is a real need more now than ever. and then they're twisting it to pump their own bags. It's just really frustrating watching that play out again and again."
  },
  {
    "i": 359,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": ">> So the so the wild thing about this and even and what's we don't do ourselves any favors because this is already exists on top of Bitcoin, >> right? It already exists and you don't"
  },
  {
    "i": 360,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "need another coin to do it. It's native to the to to the thing and people could start tomorrow and they could they can do it. So, so it's but it's instead we're fighting the private the memecoins"
  },
  {
    "i": 361,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "and all this nonsense over here when you could just go build, right? Go build on the thing."
  },
  {
    "i": 362,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": ">> Yeah."
  },
  {
    "i": 363,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": ">> Do you think the uh it feels to me like crypto is coming to its end? Are you guys getting that sense at all too?"
  },
  {
    "i": 364,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "Ethereum. Yeah. Okay. [laughter] Said I'll start with you. What's your read on on the the crypto shitcoin space?"
  },
  {
    "i": 365,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": ">> Well, it was always going to die. It's just a question of when, right? Like I mean [laughter] every every every time they they have a new boost from something, it'll die off eventually. Ordinals, I said, you know,"
  },
  {
    "i": 366,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "it's not going to last. And then it lasted more than 3 months and they're celebrating. Hey, we're still here. They would retweet me and quote me and say, hey, this guy said we're going to be"
  },
  {
    "i": 367,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "dead in three months. And okay, it took like seven or eight. Okay, so so I'm off by a few months, whatever. But the point is it it is a death spiral. It was always meant to be a death barrel"
  },
  {
    "i": 368,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "because these things are extraction tools to extract value, especially Bitcoin. So that they serve their purpose and then they're done. And I think what's most uh funny and great is"
  },
  {
    "i": 369,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "AI is accelerating that death. So you know for Bitcoiners, we we try to build in the most secure and conservative way possible. If you look at Liquid, right, the the way to get smart contracts on"
  },
  {
    "i": 370,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "Liquid was through simplicity and um formal verification, not some janky JavaScript thing that's bolted on. But it took a long time to get that right and to get that done. But now it's here."
  },
  {
    "i": 371,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "And I think you're going to see more people building on these reliable substrates. And the AIS are just going to obliterate DeFi because they're good at finding bugs. And all of those smart"
  },
  {
    "i": 372,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "contracts from Ethereum and Salana and whatever, >> they're all going to be just eviscerated by AI and drained of funds. and that they're going to either retreat to Bitcoin or they're just going to be"
  },
  {
    "i": 373,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "annihilated, >> which they have to some extent already as well too. Like I was very surprised to see um Scott Melker, the the was it the Wolf of Wall Street? No, what does he call himself? I'm blanking on Wall"
  },
  {
    "i": 374,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "Street. Yeah, >> thank you. Um he put out a a video that reminded me of something I would have seen in like the 2020 Bitcoin run. Like he put out like a Bitcoin maxi kind of videos. I think kind of a I a kind of"
  },
  {
    "i": 375,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "come to Jesus moment going I'm just going down the Bitcoin right now which I thought was very telling for the time as well."
  },
  {
    "i": 376,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": ">> He's he's a friend and I've talked to him many many times about what are you doing? It was you who did it, Jeff."
  },
  {
    "i": 377,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": ">> Not just me, but but just over time."
  },
  {
    "i": 378,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "What I said said is proof of work starts to add up >> and you and you have a back channel conversation. You said like what are you doing? Like you're promoting something that cannot work, right? And and"
  },
  {
    "i": 379,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "everything else and you're doing and and so so eventually he starts to see and he remember he got burned badly in Celsius."
  },
  {
    "i": 380,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "He got burned and he starts to um and he starts to see it in himself and he changes and he adds his voice. Right?"
  },
  {
    "i": 381,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "That's kind of you're gonna see tons of people do the same thing."
  },
  {
    "i": 382,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": ">> That is actually wonderful to hear. And just quick side note, you'd be amazed how many times I find out somebody's a Bitcoiner and I'm kind of surprised by it and then it turns out they're just a"
  },
  {
    "i": 383,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "friend with Jeff that also is there as well too. I can think of two and I it's come up publicly. So we have like the mayor of Vancouver, friend with Jeff. Um there's also a friend of the show um"
  },
  {
    "i": 384,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "Steve Seski uh does the Looney Hour podcast. Friend of Jeff also a thick winner. He's uh you're probably top tier top tier orange pilling. Um, one thing that I wanted to [clears throat] add"
  },
  {
    "i": 385,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "there too, Samson, and I'll I'll jump back. I'll start with you, but I know that Jeff has something to say as well is we talked very briefly there about liquid. Um, we know what we're talking"
  },
  {
    "i": 386,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "about, but the audience, not everybody might necessarily know. We talk about these different layers that we have built on top of. Um, Samson. So, like liquid, lightning, primary right there"
  },
  {
    "i": 387,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "in Aqua. What are those? What are the benefits of them? If you were to try to explain why this would be a great starter wallet to use."
  },
  {
    "i": 388,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": ">> Yeah. So, liquid is just a base layer for a layer two, right? So, there's many different ways you can build a wallet."
  },
  {
    "i": 389,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "You can have a direct connection to the Bitcoin main chain, which I think wallets like uh Phoenix and others do."
  },
  {
    "i": 390,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "Um, or you can have some interim middle layer, which is a bit safer in times of high fees uh to avoid things like channel closing. So, I I like Liquid. I was one of the first members when I was"
  },
  {
    "i": 391,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "at BTC China. We signed up in 2015 to be one of the first Liquid Federation members. But Liquid is a Bitcoin side chain. It has confidential transactions."
  },
  {
    "i": 392,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "So privacy was built in you know 10 years ago uh by design. Uh so every liquid transaction the amounts and the asset types are hidden and that's you know as we're talking about and Jeff's"
  },
  {
    "i": 393,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "talking about that's we've come full circle and people are starting to realize that this is very very important now. Um you also have u blocks every minute and it's just uh lower fees too."
  },
  {
    "i": 394,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "So we use that as the base for Aqua because we believe it's a really good substrate. And then from there we swap out to Lightning. So for us, Lightning is an interop layer. It connects us to,"
  },
  {
    "i": 395,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "you know, eCash mints and to fedies and everything like that. So it's just a way for us to connect. But, you know, there's other things too like state chains and whatnot. There's so many"
  },
  {
    "i": 396,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "different ways now to uh have this substrate that is interconnected with lightning. And I think this is uh why we have great privacy. We have liquid, we have eCash, we have fedments, all these"
  },
  {
    "i": 397,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "things like are giving the benefits that people really need today."
  },
  {
    "i": 398,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": ">> Agreed. We didn't even have a chance to get into it with Noster. I know we got to wrap here quick. Um we'll have to have you guys back on to do a deep dive more into the tech and take a take"
  },
  {
    "i": 399,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "another look at where we currently are in Bitcoin adoption. But gentlemen, this has been absolutely wonderful."
  },
  {
    "i": 400,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "Fantastic. Jeff, where can everybody go to follow you and your work? Uh just jeffreyboo.com is probably the best because then from there it has the links to any social media. I'm I'm not on X"
  },
  {
    "i": 401,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "anymore, am I? Just on Noster and such."
  },
  {
    "i": 402,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "So >> is that true? Your bot's definitely there. Yeah. [laughter] >> Yeah. My my bot's there. Yeah. Yeah."
  },
  {
    "i": 403,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "Except for it just uh it uh it just got suspended. U so of course centralized."
  },
  {
    "i": 404,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": ">> Ed Samson, where can everybody go to follow you and your work, my friend? Um, I'm on X usually. I'm I'm actually not an Austra fan. I'm I'm happy to talk about it, but you probably don't want me"
  },
  {
    "i": 405,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "if you want to talk it up."
  },
  {
    "i": 406,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": ">> Hey, it could be a good disagreement."
  },
  {
    "i": 407,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": ">> Sure. [laughter] Uh, my ex handles Excelon exce len and jan3com. We're we're even though X has been getting worse and worse, we're still on X habit."
  },
  {
    "i": 408,
    "speaker": "Speaker 4",
    "text": ">> Nice."
  },
  {
    "i": 409,
    "speaker": "Speaker 4",
    "text": ">> You know, the world is heading down a dark path. online censorship, central bank digital currencies, a complete loss of privacy, and it's only accelerating."
  },
  {
    "i": 410,
    "speaker": "Speaker 4",
    "text": "Most people are falling behind with the latest technology. And those that aren't are sacrificing their data, their control, and their dignity just to keep up."
  },
  {
    "i": 411,
    "speaker": "Speaker 4",
    "text": "That doesn't have to be you. Here, you'll have everything you need to break free. Over the past decade, I've helped 20 million people take control of their money, their data, [music] and their"
  },
  {
    "i": 412,
    "speaker": "Speaker 4",
    "text": "digital lives. Now I'm bringing everything I've learned to one place."
  },
  {
    "i": 413,
    "speaker": "Speaker 4",
    "text": "Sovereign Sessions is your home to learn, master, and live freedom tech."
  },
  {
    "i": 414,
    "speaker": "Speaker 4",
    "text": "Bitcoin, AI, private communications, self-hosted tools, everything. [music] Each week, I'll walk you through step by step with the most critical tools that put you back in charge. Don't ask"
  },
  {
    "i": 415,
    "speaker": "Speaker 4",
    "text": "permission, take control. Welcome to the Sovereign Sessions."
  }
]