[ { "i": 0, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "Okay, thank you for your time Jeff and as we know Hyperl is the most influential crypto protocol in the last year. So my first question is can you walk us through your journey before" }, { "i": 1, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "founding Hyperliquid and the experience shaped your path to crypto?" }, { "i": 2, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": ">> Sure. Um so I grew up in the US um or graduated 2017 from Harvard. Um studied math and computer science and before I guess back then uh if if it wasn't that long ago but it feels like a very" }, { "i": 3, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "different time. Like everyone who studied math um or was interested in working in math or computer science kind of didn't have that many options. It was kind of it was a bit of a lull in the" }, { "i": 4, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "startup scene like the sort of big social media stuff was kind of over but then AI stuff hadn't really gotten that big yet and so um you know all of us basically had decided between like" }, { "i": 5, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "staying in academia like doing research or um you know the the sort of industry choice was was often to go into quantitative trading and um so I I went to Hudson River Trading which was uh at" }, { "i": 6, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "the time and I I think now as well one of the biggest market makers uh in US equities and um other things in Tradfi as well and um so when I joined it was super cool. It was like a it was a" }, { "i": 7, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "basically startup vibe but doing trading stuff. So, um got to got to think about a lot of interesting math and um learned about markets and how to apply quantitative thinking to markets. And uh" }, { "i": 8, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "in around 2018, I had I learned about Ethereum and thought it was super cool." }, { "i": 9, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "I basically read the the yellow paper and had heard heard a bit about it and just thought this is going to be the future of finance. So um basically since since leaving HRT have basically been uh" }, { "i": 10, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "in crypto uh the whole time and um so by around 2022 I was doing um with a few other people we were doing quantitative trading in crypto and uh both looking at centralized venues and" }, { "i": 11, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "dec centralized venues and it was around then that FTX collapsed and we really saw saw the impact there and uh basically felt like people were at that point going to understand the value of" }, { "i": 12, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "self-custody and um basically be ready to trade crypto in a decentralized way." }, { "i": 13, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "And at the same time we saw that the there was a lack of this like very user-friendly kind of basically user user experience focused exchange and figured why not try to build something" }, { "i": 14, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "that's both you satisfies a decentralized um principles and also really just focused on users and um yes in exchange that users felt like really what was theirs and so that kind of like that has" }, { "i": 15, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "been in the DNA of of Hyperliquid. ever since um ever since the the beginning." }, { "i": 16, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": ">> Got it. Uh so can you share more things about the early days about building Hyperliquid also? At first would you ever thought Hyperliquid will so successful like today and even someone also called" }, { "i": 17, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "Hyperliquid as the next Binance. Do you agree with that? Uh, it definitely didn't think that it would necessarily be this big. I think we we always I think I've always dreamed big. think" }, { "i": 18, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "it's it's easy to I I think in the world it's there it's it's easy to kind of do very well just by working harder than other people and kind of sort of having faith but also having like a long-term" }, { "i": 19, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "vision and commitment and just realize that things aren't built quickly and kind of be willing to bounce back from failure and things like that. So I I do I do think all of that is is true. I" }, { "i": 20, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "think we always this I think even even even now I think we still have like bigger visions of what what it can be but of course back then we're we it would be it would be foolish to say that" }, { "i": 21, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "we knew it would it would be big and I think a lot of that a lot of that is hard work from the team a lot of it is you know community kind of you know right place right time like rallying" }, { "i": 22, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "behind the the idea that was important and um I think a lot of it is also just like just luck you know I think you Never you can never say that you have that that it was like a short thing." }, { "i": 23, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": ">> Yeah. Got it. So uh I think the community also had a question about that. Did you totally build hyperl entirely with your own fund at the first and why did you choose to reject all the" }, { "i": 24, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "venture or other people's investment and what's the philosophy behind this decision?" }, { "i": 25, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "Yeah, the so it has it has entirely been self-funded. I think I just uh yeah, I I never really I was never really doing it for money. I think like trading even before Hyperliquid money was um I think" }, { "i": 26, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "trading teaches you that money is really just a number and I'm not a super um I'm not very materialistic like uh my I don't I don't actually have anything to do with with money. So like" }, { "i": 27, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "for me it's about like doing something interesting and like valuable to to the world and that and so like um I was pretty happy to just yeah like even if it failed just like you know whatever and like optimize for" }, { "i": 28, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "the success case. Um, I do think with Hyperliquid it's very unique because part of the vision is or I guess the whole vision is kind of re reinventing how people interact with finance and" }, { "i": 29, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "value and what that means for them. And and so I I think with with such a radical goal I guess like pushing people to try something radically new and something that maybe there feels very" }, { "i": 30, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "unfamiliar. I think um I think it's tough and and I think one of the things that resonated with a lot of people was that the ownership should be kind of community driven and I think" }, { "i": 31, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "the back when hyperl started actually I think the the standard thing to do was was to raise money very big rounds from VCs and generate a lot of excitement like like raise sort of one round after" }, { "i": 32, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "another like generate like kind of generate traction that way feel like, oh, you know, we're making progress because last round we raised was at 1 million and now this one's at 10 and" }, { "i": 33, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "then at 100. But um it always just felt kind of fake to me. Like I guess that's not real progress. Like real progress is, you know, users actually getting value from what you're building and um" }, { "i": 34, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "and users being able to benefit in the upside, not not a bunch of um investors who just like threw some money in at a at an early time. So, um, that was that was kind of the vision and I think that" }, { "i": 35, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "that spoke to a lot of people and was actually, uh, I think we're very fortunate that everyone everyone can rally behind that that vision and yeah, so that's that's kind of the story" }, { "i": 36, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "behind it." }, { "i": 37, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": ">> Got it. Also, many people noticed that the Hyperliquid when you issue token, you did not list it on any centralized exchanges." }, { "i": 38, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "So why do you choose to do it? And is there uh some strategy reason not listing in like Binance or the Coinbase?" }, { "i": 39, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": ">> I think they could have listed it uh whatever they wanted. Our our framework has always been focused on building and build what users want and don't don't care about what other people" }, { "i": 40, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "maybe like just kind of like stay focused laser focused on what we're doing. Like we're a super small team. We don't have business development really like we have people who work with the" }, { "i": 41, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "community and ecosystem but we don't have the sort of institutional facing full-time team that many other teams have and so yeah we kind of didn't have capacity to help and we thought you know we we" }, { "i": 42, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "thought like it would be if basically everyone would come to this decision themselves and we were pretty happy either way like if if some platform wants to listen that's that's cool" }, { "i": 43, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "because that means their users Um maybe maybe that's like exposure for the users and if if other platforms don't list it then that's also fine because over time they will list it anyway probably if" }, { "i": 44, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "assuming that we do our our work and build good tech and it also just like means people have to come if they actually care about it and let's say they're a Binance user and they really" }, { "i": 45, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "like care about Hyperliquid but they can't find it then maybe they'll just go and try Hyperl and we thought hey that you know that's not a that's not a bad outcome either. there but really it was" }, { "i": 46, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "it it all stemmed from a just lack of capacity to do more than our very core uh functions." }, { "i": 47, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "So from from your uh view, if you want to say something to the startup or the builders, if they have money or they have power, you also will suggest them not pay much attention on the listing or" }, { "i": 48, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "the venture capital, right?" }, { "i": 49, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": ">> Not necessarily. I think I think if you need the capital to do something and the choices between raising money to do it or not doing it at all, I think it's I think that's where VC is a is a win-win," }, { "i": 50, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "right? The VC gets to take many bets and they have a lot of capital and then the startup gets um gets to, you know, not worry about funding their operations for a short period of time and they can just" }, { "i": 51, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "focus on building and scaling. So, I think it has its place and I think um but I guess you're asking if if you have capital and have the ability to do something and you really believe in it" }, { "i": 52, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "then I think I I personally think that it makes more sense to let's say like instead of diluting the overall ownership the pi is kind of the percentage is fixed right like if you're" }, { "i": 53, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "instead of diluting that with uh someone who can provide some short-term benefits like Maybe, you know, may maybe if the community can can own more of the pie, it's um I think it's just better like longterm it's" }, { "i": 54, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "better. It's more it's kind of more fair like these are the most important people." }, { "i": 55, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": ">> For the for the network, right?" }, { "i": 56, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": ">> Yeah. Also, the my next question is um did you corerate with some other monkey maker to build Hyperliquid at the first?" }, { "i": 57, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "Also will they offer tokens or air jobs because actually I heard a rumor that people said oh some very important market maker they help hi liquid to fight with Binance just a rumor. Yeah." }, { "i": 58, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": ">> Uh yeah. Yeah. So basically no no no private sort of arrangements whether that's advantages or deals like like no profit or like investment or anything like that. Um we were approached by a bunch of market" }, { "i": 59, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "makers similar to investors because I think it's just it was a very standard playbook back then. There were there were many decentralized exchanges and what most of them did was raise money" }, { "i": 60, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "and then also raise from some market makers. Then the market makers would sort of commit to providing liquidity and maybe the thought was oh because the market makers are also investors they" }, { "i": 61, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "would try to do a better job but we had no we had no investors and no such arrangements and the thought was always that maybe short-term it makes things a little bit more difficult but long term" }, { "i": 62, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "it's the right way to do it and many centralized exchanges got some backlash for their whatever they call it, internal desks or the DMMs, things like that. And um I think as a decentralized exchange, it's" }, { "i": 63, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "even more important to not have any of that from from day one. Um maybe the only exception here is is HLP, but but I think that's a completely different thing because HLP was, you know, there's" }, { "i": 64, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "it's not any one entity like any user could have deposited into it and it's protocol owned." }, { "i": 65, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "Yeah. So, uh how big is the Hyperliquid core team today now? And uh what's the dynamic like working with such a talented groups?" }, { "i": 66, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": ">> Yeah, we're 11 people. Um and it's it's about half half um engineering and non-engineering. Um yeah, it's very small. Uh the dynamic is is pretty is is good I guess. So kind of go through" }, { "i": 67, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "kind of go through thick and thin together. Yeah, I have I have a good time working with with our team. Uh I think there's there's a lot there's a lot we do well, but there's also a lot" }, { "i": 68, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "we could do better. And we're always trying to hire the very best people. So, it's not it's not like we want to necessarily stay super small always, but we're very picky about who we work with." }, { "i": 69, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "And I've always believed or I quickly learned uh early on that hiring the wrong person is much worse than not hiring anyone at all. So, >> so you will hire more people in the future. And what kind of people uh do" }, { "i": 70, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "you want?" }, { "i": 71, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": ">> We kind of want everything. It's it's hard to know because the future's so uncertain. I think Hyperliquid itself has is not that old but has changed over time. You know, initially was just" }, { "i": 72, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "uh the the focus was entirely just a per exchange that was very userfriendly and performant and decentralized. But now the vision is so much bigger. It's there are so many teams building on the" }, { "i": 73, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "platform and it's it's gotten so much it's gotten so much grander in its vision and harder to execute. So I think in the in that transition the number of things that people needed to do also changed by a" }, { "i": 74, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "lot. So it's really hard to predict what kinds of people the team kind that the team would need." }, { "i": 75, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "I would just say very smart and driven people who have very high integrity and genuinely passionate about what we're building and um yeah >> also will will you uh invest more ecosystem projects on hyperl" }, { "i": 76, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": ">> invest in or you mean like personally or >> invest some like ecosystem projects on they build on Hyperliquid." }, { "i": 77, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": ">> Well, I don't personally invest in >> Yeah. Yeah. I I mean I mean the Yeah." }, { "i": 78, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "your team or the foundation." }, { "i": 79, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": ">> Well, I don't speak for the foundation exactly, but so far it has not invested in anything. There's Yeah, I think I think it's a bit of um I think it's good. It's It's most important to remain neutral and so" }, { "i": 80, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "Yeah, I think I think investing can be can work probably, but also we're not like that would require us or the foundation to spend a lot of time finding all the you know sort of like" }, { "i": 81, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "all the all of the genuine efforts doing a particular thing and making sure that they're all kind of treated fairly. And I think that's just like ultimately that's the job of a VC and I think VCs are investing in" }, { "i": 82, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "Hyperliquid ecosystem projects and I think that's that's cool and it lets it lets a bunch of different people and different capital decide for itself where it should go." }, { "i": 83, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": ">> Yeah. So what's the Hyperliquid road map in the future and any big milestone you are excited about and wants to share with the community and we don't do milestones too much. uh we're" }, { "i": 84, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "well we know we're work we often have a few big things that technically are actively being worked on and I often feel like you know those things should though those things should be launched sort of" }, { "i": 85, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "quickly but they end up being very complex and the system is very complex so need to be very mindful about how things are rolled out but other than the few things we're working on in the" }, { "i": 86, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "long-term vision we don't do as much sort of like milestone planning. So, you know, don't have a like one quarter, two quarter, whatever projection. It's just like you know right now it's the big" }, { "i": 87, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "things are like HIPP3 implementation and um stuff around like multiple making spot trading and purpose trading more general and improving the performance of the system due to just continually increasing load." }, { "i": 88, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "Yeah. Yeah. So that that kind of stuff just keeps us busy all the time and it's not I I think it's it's it's not that helpful to know the next like multiple things you're working on. And also it's" }, { "i": 89, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "good to be responsive because a lot of the stuff um the the world is changing very quickly and finance is changing very quickly and so being able to also quickly realize what's what's going on" }, { "i": 90, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "and adapt to it is also important. And if you have I suppose if you have a very detailed road map maybe it's harder to do the right thing at the right time." }, { "i": 91, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": ">> Got it. So will Hyperliquid issue its own stable coin in the future and also will Hyperliquid enter the tokeniz tokenized stock market." }, { "i": 92, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "So, Hyperliquid won't will likely not do any of these things because there it's at this point Hyperliquid has transitioned between from more of an application in its initial days to more" }, { "i": 93, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "of a protocol now and the what people think of as you know the application is really just a front end that anyone could create and sort of like having basically an API for that front end to interact with this" }, { "i": 94, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "blockchain and the focus now is to really just make this blockchain as performant and scalable and have all the right features to build all the finance on that blockchain and then the other" }, { "i": 95, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "people like letting anyone come and build these things that you mentioned whether it's stable coins or tokenization or anything else. I think this has a lot of benefits because you" }, { "i": 96, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "one team can only do so much and we're not we're not very interested in building a very big team that's very centralized and kind of has many departments and all kind of like it's like top down controlled. Um, that's not" }, { "i": 97, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "that's not aligned with how with how I think crypto or how I think that maybe Satoshi or like other other people in crypto like that that kind of thoughts and you can it kind of goes against the principles" }, { "i": 98, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "of um of the technology itself. It's it's a lot less resilient. It's a lot less robust if there's one company building everything that that exists on there." }, { "i": 99, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "Whereas if if the core thing is this decentralized protocol that anyone can interact with and is self operating and sort of objective and neutral in that sense and everyone else builds on top" }, { "i": 100, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "and cooperate and compete and compose with each other. That's a very powerful system. I think that's how finance should work." }, { "i": 101, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": ">> Okay. You just told us Hyperliquid core team only have 11 people and we know like Binance or OKX they have maybe more than three or 4,000 people. So why hyperl very successful and also many other decks they are very" }, { "i": 102, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "struggle. Yeah. So what do you think the reasons?" }, { "i": 103, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "Um well I don't really know what goes on in the other teams so it's hard hard for me to speak. It's hard for me to compare exactly." }, { "i": 104, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": ">> But I think one one big thing is that Hyperliquid is very focused. Um like it's not really a fair comparison because if you look at a centralized exchange they're they're really running" }, { "i": 105, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "like 10 businesses. It feels like they have a they have the core team, but then they have probably like a staking team for example and like a marketing team and then they probably have" }, { "i": 106, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "institutional team and um >> my mind each of these things is kind of like probably a separate company. I mean the I think each of those companies probably still has you know 10x more people than" }, { "i": 107, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "Hyperliquid but like the the point is they're also just trying to do a lot more inhouse and I think it's just a different it's just a different perspective and so if you think of Hyperliquid as what" }, { "i": 108, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "broadly as like what anyone can do on the blockchain then I think there are a lot more people working on it and any one team working on Hyperliquid might be bigger than the core team working on the" }, { "i": 109, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "protocol. So maybe that's a better consp uh comparison." }, { "i": 110, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": ">> Okay." }, { "i": 111, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": ">> So can I ask what's your management style like and uh how do you lead a team in crypto industry?" }, { "i": 112, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": ">> I'm not sure what my management style is. You'd probably be better to ask someone who who I work with. But I think I'm I think I expect a lot from people." }, { "i": 113, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "I mean, we're such a small team and we're trying to do a lot. So, um, sort of yeah, I think I probably my my guess is that I push people to to do more than maybe they're comfortable" }, { "i": 114, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "doing. But, um, that might just be true for every kind of CEO, CTO kind of role." }, { "i": 115, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "Um, yeah, I'm pretty like hands-on. I feel like it's so I try not to like man micromanage at all. Just like give people hard things and the the bigger of a thing people someone can do themselves, the the" }, { "i": 116, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "better. Um, just have like full ownership. But on the other hand, I think it's very dangerous to just kind of step back. Like I've always been very involved in the technical stuff. Like" }, { "i": 117, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "just being able to know almost everything that's going on on on the technical side at any point in time, you know, gets harder and harder. what I think is like really important to hold" }, { "i": 118, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "on to as long as possible because or at least with with with um with what Hyperliquid is building I think it's very important because if because everything interacts it really is like one blockchain like sort of one" }, { "i": 119, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "piece of node software that secures the whole thing and if if that thing gets gets unruly or out of out of hand and like not two you know different people are kind of working on it with different" }, { "i": 120, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "perspectives and kind of clashing then I think that's very dangerous because the correctness and performance are are so important to making the thing you know scale." }, { "i": 121, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "Uh another question is actually uh most young people or the uh startups they join the AI field and many people thinks maybe in crypto field there are so so much chance so many chance to do a" }, { "i": 122, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "startup. As we know the hyperl maybe the the only very important or very successful startups in the last year and so do you still think there are many uh startup trends in the crypto or what you" }, { "i": 123, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "want to say to these startups and do you have some suggestion?" }, { "i": 124, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": ">> Yeah, I think there's a lot to do. Um, I think I think if you're very smart and young and ambitious, I think AI and crypto are the obvious things to work on. And I think uh I do think there's a mismatch" }, { "i": 125, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "in talent like you said. Like I think AI kind of takes the spotlight and probably for good reason. like a lot of stuff in crypto is kind of, you know, doesn't crypto doesn't have the best reputation and there are a lot" }, { "i": 126, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "of sketchy things that happened and continue to happen and >> um so I don't I don't really blame people. I think I think there are a lot of really interesting things to be built in crypto though and I think it it's all" }, { "i": 127, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "from this perspective of it's not like I think up up until now a lot of the in sort of very successful like money that has been made in crypto has been extractive not additive a lot of more scam style things where" }, { "i": 128, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "it's like just create some demand for a token and crypto makes it so easy to then just sell the token And I think that's very unfortunate. It gives people a lot of power, but it gives it attracts" }, { "i": 129, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "the people who want to abuse that power." }, { "i": 130, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "And I think if you take the pers if that perspective, yeah, there's not much there's nothing really to build. But if you take the perspective of like finance is outdated and the the rails that power" }, { "i": 131, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "it are outdated and and that the kind of only way to upgrade it in a way that's sustainable and really impactful is to rewrite it from the ground up in a way that ownership is not centralized" }, { "i": 132, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "uh control is not centralized. I think like if you take that perspective and there's so much to do because the finance industry itself is so large the fintech industry is so large uh both of" }, { "i": 133, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "them are much bigger and much more valuable currently than than the crypto industry uh and yet I think crypto really is offering the best solution to to do these things and so I think over" }, { "i": 134, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "the coming years hopefully there will be a lot more genuine usage and it seems like it seems like a golden time potentially with with all the policy changes and just general optimism around" }, { "i": 135, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "the technology, I think the the space has a second chance to make a good impression and build valuable things." }, { "i": 136, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "And I think once that happens, there will be a a continuous uh self-reinforcing sort of uh cycle where where once there's an example, more people will be inspired to build and then they'll create more examples." }, { "i": 137, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "And uh yeah, I think that that's all the space really needs." }, { "i": 138, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": ">> Cool. So the last question maybe more personal and if you don't want to answer it, it's okay. And actually uh we are crypto media from China and uh and actually some of my friends in Hong" }, { "i": 139, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "Kong, they also big fan of Hyperliquid and they own a house from Hyperliquid I think. Yeah. So uh so you born in the US but your parents moved from China to the US right and so where they born and uh can you" }, { "i": 140, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "speak Chinese?" }, { "i": 141, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "Uh yeah. So my my parents are both immigrants from China. So I think that makes me first generation. Like I was born and raised and um yeah. So I guess it uh yeah I think I think I'm sort of like a" }, { "i": 142, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "mix. I I suppose like I I think a lot of Eastern and Western values are are very complimentary. And I think that might be that might be a big reason I think that might be a big reason sort" }, { "i": 143, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "of for hyperl success now that I think about it is that uh we kind of take the best from both s cultural values. I think I think like American and western values are are essential for those" }, { "i": 144, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "startups succeeding and I think that's why all the by and large the biggest startups are are in America and I I think we'll continue to be while while the world looks the way it does. Um and" }, { "i": 145, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "these values are sort of like you know like believing that a small team can do something like kind of dreaming big but also you know thinking thinking like like individualism like not really taking the" }, { "i": 146, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "status quo as as a given but thinking that you you can change the world. I think that's like a very American way of thinking and it's very like culturally ingrained in in me as someone who who" }, { "i": 147, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "grew up there and something I really identify with. Um yeah, like I'm I'm not very political at all. Um just like want to build, but I think these these values the like founding I think the founding" }, { "i": 148, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "values like like resonate a lot with me." }, { "i": 149, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "Um and but on on the on the like eastern side like I I think I'm less I'm less wellversed in like you know Chinese history and things like that. like I um I think the the the sort of one of the" }, { "i": 150, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "downsides I suppose um in my in my maybe like the previous generation is like if if you move to a new country you like lose a lot of maybe your roots um and so you know I I feel a little bit" }, { "i": 151, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "bad about that but uh but I understand at high level like many of the principles and um you know traditionally like Chinese I think Chinese values are about." }, { "i": 152, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "It's a bit more about like you know humility and like uh doing more than talking kind of and and just like you know work ethic and and really just like like that you know like I like uh just just thinking" }, { "i": 153, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "thinking through that stuff I think it's it's um you know kind of comes down from the previous generation but uh I think that's also in sort of inspired me to like I guess build and work the way I do" }, { "i": 154, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "and I think basically but both of these are very valuable and complimentary worldviews. So that's like how I think about myself as >> person. Yeah, I I do speak some Chinese." }, { "i": 155, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "It was uh I think my Chinese has gotten a lot worse >> as as I don't really use it anymore. But >> yeah, it's okay. Maybe next time we can use Chinese to do a space or podcast." }, { "i": 156, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": ">> Yeah. Especially all the like technical stuff. I don't I don't know how to say because >> um >> I think yeah only work in English basically." }, { "i": 157, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": ">> Okay. It's okay." }, { "i": 158, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": ">> Yeah. So so I think my final question is uh can you say something to Chinese community or the Chinese fans? Yeah." }, { "i": 159, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "Because they are very very very supportive for the Hyperliquid. Also maybe some question more uh more interesting like uh do you still think the bull market is is still on and uh what's your prediction" }, { "i": 160, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "about the Bitcoin in this cycle? Yeah." }, { "i": 161, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "Well, to the Chinese supporters, uh, you know, [Music] um, I yeah, I I don't I don't know too much." }, { "i": 162, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "It's like a different world. I, you know, I haven't been to China for a while and, um, don't it feels like simultaneously very close and also very far. Uh so uh it's very cool that that" }, { "i": 163, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "they're such a big community and that that they're supportive and you know hyperl ultimately is is is not supposed to be con constrained by sort of any boundaries whether that's you know political or national or" }, { "i": 164, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "anything like that like I think finance I really believe in free markets and um capitalism and that's kind of like I think has demonstrated like like the the world has demonstrated that's that's" }, { "i": 165, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "the best way to increase prosperity and just generally you know further humanity's yeah I think prosperity is the best word uh and I think I think Hyperliquid is kind of the extension of that so I think" }, { "i": 166, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "it's very cool that everywhere everywhere in the world people are um rallying behind it and you know succeeding because of it or like by building on it etc and uh I hope to continue seeing that and support" }, { "i": 167, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "everyone in that process. Um, as for the bull market and stuff, I'm not a super I I don't really I don't know at all. Basically, I've I've always been a like when trading it's been it's" }, { "i": 168, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "been fully automated and uh my focus has been kind of like understanding markets on a very detailed time frame. And my mental model has always been that the on long time frames it's very hard" }, { "i": 169, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "to say anything confident. And if you think you if you think you know then you're probably wrong. Like I think the smartest people who can make long-term predictions have to make those predictions with a lot of" }, { "i": 170, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "uncertainty. Like I don't think if you ask you know Warren Buffett where uh Coca-Cola stock will be in five years he could tell you like oh for sure it will be like big you know this is a bull" }, { "i": 171, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "market. I don't think I think he will just say like you know like this is key look at fundamentals etc and like make some very vague projection but um but yeah so that's that's not that's not my" }, { "i": 172, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "area of expertise. Um, but I also don't think it matters that much. Like I think the thing we're building I think you care a lot about bull markets and bare markets. If you're if your primary focus is like buying and" }, { "i": 173, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "selling tokens, but if your focus is building, then I think it doesn't matter. And in some sense, building when it's quieter is actually nicer because there are fewer distractions. So yeah," }, { "i": 174, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": "that's that's always been my yeah, my my kind of lame answer to that question." }, { "i": 175, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": ">> Okay. Okay. Thank you, Jeff. Thank you." }, { "i": 176, "speaker": "Speaker 1", "text": "Hope we can talk more in the next time." }, { "i": 177, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": ">> Okay." }, { "i": 178, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": ">> Thank you for calling." }, { "i": 179, "speaker": "Speaker 2", "text": ">> Appreciate it. Bye. Bye." } ]