[
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "hello and welcome everyone I'm Corey hello and welcome everyone I'm Corey"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "hoffstein and this is flirting with hoffstein and this is flirting with hoffstein and this is flirting with"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "models the podcast that pulls back the models the podcast that pulls back the models the podcast that pulls back the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "curtain to discover the human factor curtain to discover the human factor curtain to discover the human factor"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "behind the quantitative strategy behind the quantitative strategy behind the quantitative strategy"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "Corey hofstein is the co-founder and Corey hofstein is the co-founder and Corey hofstein is the co-founder and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "chief investment officer of Newfound chief investment officer of Newfound chief investment officer of Newfound"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "research due to Industry regulations he research due to Industry regulations he research due to Industry regulations he"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "will not discuss any of Newfound will not discuss any of Newfound will not discuss any of Newfound"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "researches funds on this podcast all researches funds on this podcast all researches funds on this podcast all"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "opinions expressed by podcast opinions expressed by podcast opinions expressed by podcast"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "participants are solely their own participants are solely their own participants are solely their own"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "opinion and do not reflect the opinion opinion and do not reflect the opinion opinion and do not reflect the opinion"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "of Newfound research this podcast is for of Newfound research this podcast is for of Newfound research this podcast is for"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "informational purposes only and should informational purposes only and should informational purposes only and should"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "not be relied upon as a basis for not be relied upon as a basis for not be relied upon as a basis for"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "investment decisions clients of Newfound investment decisions clients of Newfound investment decisions clients of Newfound"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "research May maintain positions and research May maintain positions and research May maintain positions and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "securities discussed in this podcast for securities discussed in this podcast for securities discussed in this podcast for"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "more information visit thinknewfound"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "com this episode is Jeff Yan founder of this episode is Jeff Yan founder of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "chameleon Trading Jeff began his career chameleon Trading Jeff began his career chameleon Trading Jeff began his career"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "in high frequency trading at Hudson in high frequency trading at Hudson in high frequency trading at Hudson"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "River but soon moved over to the world River but soon moved over to the world River but soon moved over to the world"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "of crypto where he built one of the of crypto where he built one of the of crypto where he built one of the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "largest market making firms in the space largest market making firms in the space largest market making firms in the space"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "after Jeff gets me up to speed with the after Jeff gets me up to speed with the after Jeff gets me up to speed with the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "basics of high frequency Market making basics of high frequency Market making basics of high frequency Market making"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "we dive into some of the more esoteric we dive into some of the more esoteric we dive into some of the more esoteric"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "components particularly with respect to components particularly with respect to components particularly with respect to"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "centralized crypto exchanges these centralized crypto exchanges these centralized crypto exchanges these"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "include infrastructure quarks include infrastructure quarks include infrastructure quarks"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "adversarial algorithms and why hft p l adversarial algorithms and why hft p l adversarial algorithms and why hft p l"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "might actually be predictive of might actually be predictive of might actually be predictive of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "medium-term price movements in the back medium-term price movements in the back medium-term price movements in the back"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "half of the conversation Jeff explains half of the conversation Jeff explains half of the conversation Jeff explains"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "the problems he sees with current the problems he sees with current the problems he sees with current"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "decentralized exchanges and introduces decentralized exchanges and introduces decentralized exchanges and introduces"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "Hyperliquid a new decentralized trading Hyperliquid a new decentralized trading Hyperliquid a new decentralized trading"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "platform built on its own blockchain to platform built on its own blockchain to platform built on its own blockchain to"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "provide performant order book execution provide performant order book execution provide performant order book execution"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "for Perpetual Futures please enjoy my for Perpetual Futures please enjoy my for Perpetual Futures please enjoy my"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "conversation with Jeff Yan conversation with Jeff Yan conversation with Jeff Yan"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "[Music] [Music] [Music]"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "Jeff welcome to the show hitting it off Jeff welcome to the show hitting it off Jeff welcome to the show hitting it off"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "early in the season with some crypto early in the season with some crypto early in the season with some crypto"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "here we're gonna see how the audience here we're gonna see how the audience here we're gonna see how the audience"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "responds but I think this is going to be responds but I think this is going to be responds but I think this is going to be"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "a fun one because we're talking high a fun one because we're talking high a fun one because we're talking high"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "frequency trading maybe even digging a frequency trading maybe even digging a frequency trading maybe even digging a"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "little into the secrets of high little into the secrets of high little into the secrets of high"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "frequency trading and then in the back frequency trading and then in the back frequency trading and then in the back"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "half of the conversation going to be half of the conversation going to be half of the conversation going to be"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "talking about protocol design which is a talking about protocol design which is a talking about protocol design which is a"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "whole different new area of Quant whole different new area of Quant whole different new area of Quant"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "thinking so really excited to have you thinking so really excited to have you thinking so really excited to have you"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "on thank you for joining me great to be on thank you for joining me great to be on thank you for joining me great to be"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "on koi thanks for having me let's start on koi thanks for having me let's start on koi thanks for having me let's start"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "with the typical stuff for guests who with the typical stuff for guests who with the typical stuff for guests who"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "maybe don't know who you are or haven't maybe don't know who you are or haven't maybe don't know who you are or haven't"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "caught on to your quickly growing caught on to your quickly growing caught on to your quickly growing"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "Twitter stream let's get into your Twitter stream let's get into your Twitter stream let's get into your"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "background a bit My Story Probably background a bit My Story Probably background a bit My Story Probably"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "sounds pretty similar for a lot of hft sounds pretty similar for a lot of hft sounds pretty similar for a lot of hft"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "folks out there I graduated from Harvard folks out there I graduated from Harvard folks out there I graduated from Harvard"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "the computer science and math went the computer science and math went the computer science and math went"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "straight to Hudson River Trading which straight to Hudson River Trading which straight to Hudson River Trading which"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "is one of the bigger market makers and is one of the bigger market makers and is one of the bigger market makers and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "tradify I work on U"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "S equities we've had tradify I work on U"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "S equities we've had tradify I work on U"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "S equities we've had"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "a great time there it was the perfect a great time there it was the perfect a great time there it was the perfect"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "environment when I joined it was about environment when I joined it was about environment when I joined it was about"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "150 people I know now it's a lot bigger 150 people I know now it's a lot bigger 150 people I know now it's a lot bigger"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "can't say enough positive things learned can't say enough positive things learned can't say enough positive things learned"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "so much got to work on the most so much got to work on the most so much got to work on the most"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "interesting problems perfect mix of interesting problems perfect mix of interesting problems perfect mix of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "engineering and math this is like engineering and math this is like engineering and math this is like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "paradise for a Quant but 2018 came along paradise for a Quant but 2018 came along paradise for a Quant but 2018 came along"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "and with it the crypto Mania of building and with it the crypto Mania of building and with it the crypto Mania of building"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "smart contracts on ethereum read the smart contracts on ethereum read the smart contracts on ethereum read the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "yellow paper and it just clicked and I yellow paper and it just clicked and I yellow paper and it just clicked and I"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "knew that this was going to be the knew that this was going to be the knew that this was going to be the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "future and so I left to build sort of an future and so I left to build sort of an future and so I left to build sort of an"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "L2 exchange protocol it was in the L2 exchange protocol it was in the L2 exchange protocol it was in the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "format of a prediction Market because format of a prediction Market because format of a prediction Market because"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "back then auger had found a good product back then auger had found a good product back then auger had found a good product"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "Market fit but we were interested in the Market fit but we were interested in the Market fit but we were interested in the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "exchange technology so raise the money exchange technology so raise the money exchange technology so raise the money"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "moved out to San Francisco to build this moved out to San Francisco to build this moved out to San Francisco to build this"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "thing built a team but kind of shut it thing built a team but kind of shut it thing built a team but kind of shut it"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "down after a few months because we down after a few months because we down after a few months because we"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "realized it was not the right time a lot realized it was not the right time a lot realized it was not the right time a lot"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "of regulatory uncertainty and really of regulatory uncertainty and really of regulatory uncertainty and really"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "couldn't find users people barely knew couldn't find users people barely knew couldn't find users people barely knew"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "how smart contracts worked really were how smart contracts worked really were how smart contracts worked really were"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "interested in speculating on tokens and interested in speculating on tokens and interested in speculating on tokens and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "not really defy at the time so shut that not really defy at the time so shut that not really defy at the time so shut that"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "down down down"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "did a little soul searching traveled and did a little soul searching traveled and did a little soul searching traveled and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "ultimately decided I want to go back ultimately decided I want to go back ultimately decided I want to go back"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "into trading because into trading because into trading because"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "the day-to-day was a lot more the day-to-day was a lot more the day-to-day was a lot more"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "interesting than struggling to find interesting than struggling to find interesting than struggling to find"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "product Market fit so contemplating product Market fit so contemplating product Market fit so contemplating"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "going back into going back into going back into"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "the industry joining some company but the industry joining some company but the industry joining some company but"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "thought maybe I would since I knew all thought maybe I would since I knew all thought maybe I would since I knew all"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "this about crypto from building I would this about crypto from building I would this about crypto from building I would"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "try to try to try to"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "trade crypto first and so started as a trade crypto first and so started as a trade crypto first and so started as a"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "bit of a side project but quickly saw bit of a side project but quickly saw bit of a side project but quickly saw"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "the opportunity there and scaled it up the opportunity there and scaled it up the opportunity there and scaled it up"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "really way faster than I thought was really way faster than I thought was really way faster than I thought was"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "possible I was surprised by how possible I was surprised by how possible I was surprised by how"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "inefficient the markets were so in heads inefficient the markets were so in heads inefficient the markets were so in heads"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "down building that for down building that for down building that for"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "maybe at this point almost three years I maybe at this point almost three years I maybe at this point almost three years I"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "really seriously started early 2020 really seriously started early 2020 really seriously started early 2020"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "which was great timing kind of got to which was great timing kind of got to which was great timing kind of got to"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "grow with the market so as the market grow with the market so as the market grow with the market so as the market"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "10x even like 100x and volume we kind of 10x even like 100x and volume we kind of 10x even like 100x and volume we kind of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "grew With It ultimately our market share grew With It ultimately our market share grew With It ultimately our market share"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "ended up being one of the biggest ended up being one of the biggest ended up being one of the biggest"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "centralized exchange market makers and centralized exchange market makers and centralized exchange market makers and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "about a year ago we started looking at about a year ago we started looking at about a year ago we started looking at"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "defy trading and defy trading and defy trading and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "sort of really reminiscent of when we sort of really reminiscent of when we sort of really reminiscent of when we"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "started centralized exchange trading and started centralized exchange trading and started centralized exchange trading and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "that there were a ton of inefficiencies that there were a ton of inefficiencies that there were a ton of inefficiencies"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "but in this case the protocols but in this case the protocols but in this case the protocols"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "themselves were quite poorly designed themselves were quite poorly designed themselves were quite poorly designed"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "and we also saw this demand for truly and we also saw this demand for truly and we also saw this demand for truly"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "decentralized product decentralized product decentralized product"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "after the whole FTX thing people were after the whole FTX thing people were after the whole FTX thing people were"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "finally catching on to the not your keys finally catching on to the not your keys finally catching on to the not your keys"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "not your coins counterparty risk that not your coins counterparty risk that not your coins counterparty risk that"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "kind of stuff basically it clicked for kind of stuff basically it clicked for kind of stuff basically it clicked for"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "us that this was not the right time to us that this was not the right time to us that this was not the right time to"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "build the decentralized exchange and so build the decentralized exchange and so build the decentralized exchange and so"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "we've been sort of at that for we've been sort of at that for we've been sort of at that for"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "maybe a quarter a little more than that maybe a quarter a little more than that maybe a quarter a little more than that"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "now and the hft stuff is still running now and the hft stuff is still running now and the hft stuff is still running"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "in the back autopilot maintenance mode in the back autopilot maintenance mode in the back autopilot maintenance mode"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "but we really focus and excited about but we really focus and excited about but we really focus and excited about"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "building this decks at this point well a building this decks at this point well a building this decks at this point well a"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "lot to unpack there and stuff we'll get lot to unpack there and stuff we'll get lot to unpack there and stuff we'll get"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "into the conversation I'm excited to into the conversation I'm excited to into the conversation I'm excited to"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "talk about learnings you had in the high talk about learnings you had in the high talk about learnings you had in the high"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "frequency space and how that ultimately frequency space and how that ultimately frequency space and how that ultimately"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "has influenced your design of this decks has influenced your design of this decks has influenced your design of this decks"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "but I want to start with the basics of but I want to start with the basics of but I want to start with the basics of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "high frequency when I talk to people who high frequency when I talk to people who high frequency when I talk to people who"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "are in high frequency trading it seems are in high frequency trading it seems are in high frequency trading it seems"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "like one of the biggest decisions you like one of the biggest decisions you like one of the biggest decisions you"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "have to make is this concept of making have to make is this concept of making have to make is this concept of making"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "versus taking it seems to be a very versus taking it seems to be a very versus taking it seems to be a very"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "clear Line in the Sand of it very clear Line in the Sand of it very clear Line in the Sand of it very"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "differentiated strategies and what it differentiated strategies and what it differentiated strategies and what it"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "takes to succeed with each of those takes to succeed with each of those takes to succeed with each of those"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "types of strategies it's hoping maybe types of strategies it's hoping maybe types of strategies it's hoping maybe"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "you could explain the differences and you could explain the differences and you could explain the differences and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "how those differences have implications how those differences have implications how those differences have implications"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "on the choice of strategy design on the choice of strategy design on the choice of strategy design"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "infrastructure and need and even the infrastructure and need and even the infrastructure and need and even the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "research process research process research process"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "I've been thinking this is their first I've been thinking this is their first I've been thinking this is their first"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "big decision that you need to make when big decision that you need to make when big decision that you need to make when"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "you're starting hft and I think high you're starting hft and I think high you're starting hft and I think high"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "level I will say there are more level I will say there are more level I will say there are more"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "similarities and there are differences similarities and there are differences similarities and there are differences"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "at the end of the day you are doing this at the end of the day you are doing this at the end of the day you are doing this"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "very infrastructure intensive latency very infrastructure intensive latency very infrastructure intensive latency"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "sensitive trading but in many regards sensitive trading but in many regards sensitive trading but in many regards"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "they are opposites as well so the first they are opposites as well so the first they are opposites as well so the first"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "big difference is that I would say big difference is that I would say big difference is that I would say"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "making is more infrastructure heavy and making is more infrastructure heavy and making is more infrastructure heavy and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "taking is more stats math model heavy taking is more stats math model heavy taking is more stats math model heavy"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "I think the best way to decide between I think the best way to decide between I think the best way to decide between"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "the two is just what sort of work what the two is just what sort of work what the two is just what sort of work what"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "sort of research are you inclined sort of research are you inclined sort of research are you inclined"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "towards maybe like a concrete example towards maybe like a concrete example towards maybe like a concrete example"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "like when you're Market making you're like when you're Market making you're like when you're Market making you're"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "kind of at the whim of people coming in kind of at the whim of people coming in kind of at the whim of people coming in"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "and picking you off and picking you off and picking you off"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "you can't really afford to slip up you you can't really afford to slip up you you can't really afford to slip up you"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "often have large implicit exposure by often have large implicit exposure by often have large implicit exposure by"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "being levered up and having open orders being levered up and having open orders being levered up and having open orders"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "over many instruments many price levels over many instruments many price levels over many instruments many price levels"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "and if you screw up really that heavy and if you screw up really that heavy and if you screw up really that heavy"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "tail is really going to be painful tail is really going to be painful tail is really going to be painful"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "whereas you can have a strategy that whereas you can have a strategy that whereas you can have a strategy that"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "takes once a day and it can be a really takes once a day and it can be a really takes once a day and it can be a really"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "good strategy and it can be high good strategy and it can be high good strategy and it can be high"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "frequency it could be news based it frequency it could be news based it frequency it could be news based it"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "could be some sort of Niche signal but could be some sort of Niche signal but could be some sort of Niche signal but"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "you have the luxury and because of that you have the luxury and because of that you have the luxury and because of that"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "you have the luxury to be much smarter you have the luxury to be much smarter you have the luxury to be much smarter"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "if your thing is slow most of the time if your thing is slow most of the time if your thing is slow most of the time"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "doesn't trigger most of the time that's doesn't trigger most of the time that's doesn't trigger most of the time that's"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "okay as long as when you do trade it's okay as long as when you do trade it's okay as long as when you do trade it's"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "good but with making if you're doing good but with making if you're doing good but with making if you're doing"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "well 99 of the time one percent of the well 99 of the time one percent of the well 99 of the time one percent of the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "time you're a little slow and can't keep time you're a little slow and can't keep time you're a little slow and can't keep"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "up with the data or you're going to lose up with the data or you're going to lose up with the data or you're going to lose"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "enough money during that one percent of enough money during that one percent of enough money during that one percent of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "the time to negate your p l from the the time to negate your p l from the the time to negate your p l from the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "other 99 that's the fundamental other 99 that's the fundamental other 99 that's the fundamental"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "infrastructure versus model difference infrastructure versus model difference infrastructure versus model difference"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "between the two is it too simplistic to between the two is it too simplistic to between the two is it too simplistic to"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "say with taking say with taking say with taking"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "you expect the market to move in the you expect the market to move in the you expect the market to move in the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "direction in which you're trading direction in which you're trading direction in which you're trading"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "because you're willing to cross the bid because you're willing to cross the bid because you're willing to cross the bid"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "ask spread and so you expect the market ask spread and so you expect the market ask spread and so you expect the market"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "to keep moving versus making you're to keep moving versus making you're to keep moving versus making you're"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "hoping the market doesn't move someone's hoping the market doesn't move someone's hoping the market doesn't move someone's"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "crossing the spread to meet you and then crossing the spread to meet you and then crossing the spread to meet you and then"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "you're hoping the market doesn't move so you're hoping the market doesn't move so you're hoping the market doesn't move so"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "that you can then sell across the spread that you can then sell across the spread that you can then sell across the spread"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "again is that a fair difference like one again is that a fair difference like one again is that a fair difference like one"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "is hoping the market almost stays flat is hoping the market almost stays flat is hoping the market almost stays flat"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "in the time frame of the trade and one in the time frame of the trade and one in the time frame of the trade and one"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "is hoping there's a directional move yes is hoping there's a directional move yes is hoping there's a directional move yes"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "exactly so with hft we like to Mark out exactly so with hft we like to Mark out exactly so with hft we like to Mark out"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "to pretty short time Horizons but this to pretty short time Horizons but this to pretty short time Horizons but this"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "is kind of true in general like no is kind of true in general like no is kind of true in general like no"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "matter what frequency you're trading at matter what frequency you're trading at matter what frequency you're trading at"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "the instant you take you're actually the instant you take you're actually the instant you take you're actually"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "suffering a loss so you're marking to suffering a loss so you're marking to suffering a loss so you're marking to"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "Mid your instant suffering loss and Mid your instant suffering loss and Mid your instant suffering loss and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "you're only going to be profitable on you're only going to be profitable on you're only going to be profitable on"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "average if like you said over whatever average if like you said over whatever average if like you said over whatever"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "her predictive Horizon you have the her predictive Horizon you have the her predictive Horizon you have the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "price on average compensates for that price on average compensates for that price on average compensates for that"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "immediate loss plus fees was making the immediate loss plus fees was making the immediate loss plus fees was making the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "initial p l is the highest it will ever initial p l is the highest it will ever initial p l is the highest it will ever"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "be you just made a spread but you're be you just made a spread but you're be you just made a spread but you're"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "banking on that not being on average banking on that not being on average banking on that not being on average"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "average selection and so necessarily average selection and so necessarily average selection and so necessarily"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "when you make if you sort of average out when you make if you sort of average out when you make if you sort of average out"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "markouts of your trades that p l will markouts of your trades that p l will markouts of your trades that p l will"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "Decay over time but your hope is that it Decay over time but your hope is that it Decay over time but your hope is that it"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "doesn't Decay past zero in our pre-call doesn't Decay past zero in our pre-call doesn't Decay past zero in our pre-call"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "you mentioned that one of the most you mentioned that one of the most you mentioned that one of the most"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "difficult aspects of scaling up your difficult aspects of scaling up your difficult aspects of scaling up your"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "business was actually not on the business was actually not on the business was actually not on the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "research side but on the infrastructure research side but on the infrastructure research side but on the infrastructure"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "side I saw on Twitter you said something side I saw on Twitter you said something side I saw on Twitter you said something"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "to the effect of knowing how to to the effect of knowing how to to the effect of knowing how to"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "normalize data isn't going to print you normalize data isn't going to print you normalize data isn't going to print you"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "money but without it you definitely money but without it you definitely money but without it you definitely"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "won't won't won't"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "hoping you could talk about maybe some hoping you could talk about maybe some hoping you could talk about maybe some"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "of the biggest lessons you learned in of the biggest lessons you learned in of the biggest lessons you learned in"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "the infrastructure side of the equation the infrastructure side of the equation the infrastructure side of the equation"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "and why you think it's so important so and why you think it's so important so and why you think it's so important so"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "your question sort of has two parts and your question sort of has two parts and your question sort of has two parts and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "they're pretty tied there's the trading they're pretty tied there's the trading they're pretty tied there's the trading"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "infrastructure and then there's the infrastructure and then there's the infrastructure and then there's the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "research infrastructure and so like data research infrastructure and so like data research infrastructure and so like data"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "cleaning falls in the research it's more cleaning falls in the research it's more cleaning falls in the research it's more"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "like statistical practices whereas like statistical practices whereas like statistical practices whereas"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "trading infrastructure is like pretty trading infrastructure is like pretty trading infrastructure is like pretty"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "unique high frequency trading and so unique high frequency trading and so unique high frequency trading and so"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "both are super important the stat stuff both are super important the stat stuff both are super important the stat stuff"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "as I guess as I guess as I guess"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "more well known but probably worth more well known but probably worth more well known but probably worth"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "emphasizing that it's the regime of emphasizing that it's the regime of emphasizing that it's the regime of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "noise sort of signal to noise in high noise sort of signal to noise in high noise sort of signal to noise in high"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "frequency trading is orders of magnitude frequency trading is orders of magnitude frequency trading is orders of magnitude"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "higher than most things people study in higher than most things people study in higher than most things people study in"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "Academia and so Academia and so Academia and so"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "filtering outliers is exponentially more filtering outliers is exponentially more filtering outliers is exponentially more"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "important important important"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "if you don't think about this stuff if you don't think about this stuff if you don't think about this stuff"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "correctly if you really just ignore all correctly if you really just ignore all correctly if you really just ignore all"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "the outliers then your model is going to the outliers then your model is going to the outliers then your model is going to"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "be screwed over when the sort of Black be screwed over when the sort of Black be screwed over when the sort of Black"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "Swan tail events do happen but if you Swan tail events do happen but if you Swan tail events do happen but if you"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "don't filter them and normalize them don't filter them and normalize them don't filter them and normalize them"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "correctly then dollars are going to correctly then dollars are going to correctly then dollars are going to"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "basically determine your entire model basically determine your entire model basically determine your entire model"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "concretely I think depending on what concretely I think depending on what concretely I think depending on what"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "you're doing using things like you're doing using things like you're doing using things like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "percentiles can be a lot more robust percentiles can be a lot more robust percentiles can be a lot more robust"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "than using the actual values but we are than using the actual values but we are than using the actual values but we are"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "using actual values then are you using actual values then are you using actual values then are you"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "throwing out the outliers are you throwing out the outliers are you throwing out the outliers are you"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "clipping the outliers these kinds of clipping the outliers these kinds of clipping the outliers these kinds of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "things have very big effects things have very big effects things have very big effects"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "on the infrastructure side I think the on the infrastructure side I think the on the infrastructure side I think the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "biggest lesson we learned sounds kind of biggest lesson we learned sounds kind of biggest lesson we learned sounds kind of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "silly but you really need to learn this silly but you really need to learn this silly but you really need to learn this"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "firsthand you need to look at the data firsthand you need to look at the data firsthand you need to look at the data"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "you might think you're super smart you you might think you're super smart you you might think you're super smart you"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "have this great have this great have this great"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "pipeline that will clean the data and pipeline that will clean the data and pipeline that will clean the data and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "give you the inputs you want your models give you the inputs you want your models give you the inputs you want your models"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "but actually it's impossible to spend but actually it's impossible to spend but actually it's impossible to spend"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "too much time looking at data like too much time looking at data like too much time looking at data like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "you're always going to learn something you're always going to learn something you're always going to learn something"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "new and so when starting out it's just new and so when starting out it's just new and so when starting out it's just"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "like write down all the raw stuff you're like write down all the raw stuff you're like write down all the raw stuff you're"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "getting from the exchanges and just comb getting from the exchanges and just comb getting from the exchanges and just comb"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "through it look for outliers sanity through it look for outliers sanity through it look for outliers sanity"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "check things I think a super pretty check things I think a super pretty check things I think a super pretty"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "crazy example of this is at some point crazy example of this is at some point crazy example of this is at some point"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "some Exchange some Exchange some Exchange"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "add some bug on there feed machines and add some bug on there feed machines and add some bug on there feed machines and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "flip the price and size fields on I flip the price and size fields on I flip the price and size fields on I"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "forget if it was the bookstream or the forget if it was the bookstream or the forget if it was the bookstream or the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "trade stream but regardless it trade stream but regardless it trade stream but regardless it"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "completely messed up our internal completely messed up our internal completely messed up our internal"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "counting code counting code counting code"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "imagine like bitcoin's price and size imagine like bitcoin's price and size imagine like bitcoin's price and size"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "being flipped so 20K 0"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "1 being recorded being flipped so 20K 0"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "1 being recorded being flipped so 20K 0"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "1 being recorded"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "and I super mentioned everything and I and I super mentioned everything and I and I super mentioned everything and I"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "think a lot of firms probably shut down think a lot of firms probably shut down think a lot of firms probably shut down"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "immediately or quickly recover an immediately or quickly recover an immediately or quickly recover an"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "extraction alternative data source but extraction alternative data source but extraction alternative data source but"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "things like that you really want to be things like that you really want to be things like that you really want to be"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "close to the raw data because no matter close to the raw data because no matter close to the raw data because no matter"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "what logic you write it's not going to what logic you write it's not going to what logic you write it's not going to"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "be perfectly robust I guess another tip be perfectly robust I guess another tip be perfectly robust I guess another tip"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "is really focus on timestamps so is really focus on timestamps so is really focus on timestamps so"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "exchanges will often give you a bunch of exchanges will often give you a bunch of exchanges will often give you a bunch of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "time stamps with their data and it's time stamps with their data and it's time stamps with their data and it's"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "kind of up to you to figure out exactly kind of up to you to figure out exactly kind of up to you to figure out exactly"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "what they mean with each timestamp and what they mean with each timestamp and what they mean with each timestamp and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "this is important in terms of this is important in terms of this is important in terms of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "understanding the Black Box in terms of understanding the Black Box in terms of understanding the Black Box in terms of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "your latency like what are you measuring your latency like what are you measuring your latency like what are you measuring"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "exactly and seeing if you're keeping up exactly and seeing if you're keeping up exactly and seeing if you're keeping up"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "for example or if they're sending you for example or if they're sending you for example or if they're sending you"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "garbage timestamps are a great way to garbage timestamps are a great way to garbage timestamps are a great way to"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "distinguish between these different distinguish between these different distinguish between these different"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "cases one of the things that I see cases one of the things that I see cases one of the things that I see"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "discussed a lot among high frequency discussed a lot among high frequency discussed a lot among high frequency"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "Traders is this concept of fair I know Traders is this concept of fair I know Traders is this concept of fair I know"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "it's something you've written about a it's something you've written about a it's something you've written about a"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "few times talking about making sure few times talking about making sure few times talking about making sure"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "someone's trading around Fair what is someone's trading around Fair what is someone's trading around Fair what is"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "fair how do you measure it why is it an fair how do you measure it why is it an fair how do you measure it why is it an"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "important concept I think fair means important concept I think fair means important concept I think fair means"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "something slightly different for every something slightly different for every something slightly different for every"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "Trading berm it kind of speaks to the Trading berm it kind of speaks to the Trading berm it kind of speaks to the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "style of trading they're doing but at a style of trading they're doing but at a style of trading they're doing but at a"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "high level what's in common is that fair high level what's in common is that fair high level what's in common is that fair"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "sort of incorporates your modeling into sort of incorporates your modeling into sort of incorporates your modeling into"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "a predicted price it's really useful a predicted price it's really useful a predicted price it's really useful"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "abstraction because it splits this abstraction because it splits this abstraction because it splits this"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "problem of writing a profitable strategy problem of writing a profitable strategy problem of writing a profitable strategy"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "into two into two into two"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "I would say a comparably difficult I would say a comparably difficult I would say a comparably difficult"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "pieces depending on your strategy and pieces depending on your strategy and pieces depending on your strategy and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "that is the predicting the price piece that is the predicting the price piece that is the predicting the price piece"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "and the executing your orders piece I and the executing your orders piece I and the executing your orders piece I"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "guess this kind of goes back to the guess this kind of goes back to the guess this kind of goes back to the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "making versus taking questions you asked making versus taking questions you asked making versus taking questions you asked"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "earlier but like making is heavier on earlier but like making is heavier on earlier but like making is heavier on"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "the execution side whereas taking as the execution side whereas taking as the execution side whereas taking as"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "heavier on the modeling side and so heavier on the modeling side and so heavier on the modeling side and so"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "basically taking your spend almost all basically taking your spend almost all basically taking your spend almost all"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "your time thinking about this fair price your time thinking about this fair price your time thinking about this fair price"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "and I think what goes into it is really and I think what goes into it is really and I think what goes into it is really"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "up to you as a Trader like what kinds of up to you as a Trader like what kinds of up to you as a Trader like what kinds of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "data do you think you have an edge data do you think you have an edge data do you think you have an edge"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "processing over over the market like processing over over the market like processing over over the market like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "where are the markets inefficient I where are the markets inefficient I where are the markets inefficient I"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "guess another thing is like there guess another thing is like there guess another thing is like there"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "doesn't have to be one fair price you doesn't have to be one fair price you doesn't have to be one fair price you"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "might have multiple fares as inputs to might have multiple fares as inputs to might have multiple fares as inputs to"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "this more machine learning Style Trading this more machine learning Style Trading this more machine learning Style Trading"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "you might have like a one second you might have like a one second you might have like a one second"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "prediction and one day prediction and prediction and one day prediction and prediction and one day prediction and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "your execution strategy may use these in your execution strategy may use these in your execution strategy may use these in"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "different ways the optimization problem different ways the optimization problem different ways the optimization problem"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "can be different in p l space can be different in p l space can be different in p l space"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "but I think when it's starting out you but I think when it's starting out you but I think when it's starting out you"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "can get very far by just doing a clean can get very far by just doing a clean can get very far by just doing a clean"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "cut and saying all right I'm gonna put cut and saying all right I'm gonna put cut and saying all right I'm gonna put"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "my work into first just coming up with a my work into first just coming up with a my work into first just coming up with a"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "number which is what I think number which is what I think number which is what I think"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "I will trade around like I'll quote I will trade around like I'll quote I will trade around like I'll quote"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "around this I'll use this number to around this I'll use this number to around this I'll use this number to"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "cross the spread this will just be like cross the spread this will just be like cross the spread this will just be like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "my Oracle and then working around okay I my Oracle and then working around okay I my Oracle and then working around okay I"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "have like this Oracle price it's given have like this Oracle price it's given have like this Oracle price it's given"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "to me what's the best way I can execute to me what's the best way I can execute to me what's the best way I can execute"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "around it and so could that be something around it and so could that be something around it and so could that be something"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "as simple as you're looking at one as simple as you're looking at one as simple as you're looking at one"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "exchange and you might say just throwing exchange and you might say just throwing exchange and you might say just throwing"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "this example out there almost all the this example out there almost all the this example out there almost all the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "liquidities at binance I'm just going to liquidities at binance I'm just going to liquidities at binance I'm just going to"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "assume the price at binance is fair and assume the price at binance is fair and assume the price at binance is fair and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "then if other exchanges are lagging that then if other exchanges are lagging that then if other exchanges are lagging that"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "by milliseconds or seconds you might be by milliseconds or seconds you might be by milliseconds or seconds you might be"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "using binance as fare and okay I can using binance as fare and okay I can using binance as fare and okay I can"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "cross the spread at okx or something cross the spread at okx or something cross the spread at okx or something"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "like that because there's you're like that because there's you're like that because there's you're"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "expecting this catch up across a expecting this catch up across a expecting this catch up across a"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "different exchange and then there's different exchange and then there's different exchange and then there's"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "other maybe statistical ways of other maybe statistical ways of other maybe statistical ways of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "estimating fare where you're not taking estimating fare where you're not taking estimating fare where you're not taking"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "truth from One exchange but you're truth from One exchange but you're truth from One exchange but you're"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "trying to use other Market book related trying to use other Market book related trying to use other Market book related"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "signals to come up with a fair is that a signals to come up with a fair is that a signals to come up with a fair is that a"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "fair explanation or idea yeah that's the fair explanation or idea yeah that's the fair explanation or idea yeah that's the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "right idea so I think using the most right idea so I think using the most right idea so I think using the most"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "liquid venue as the fair is a really liquid venue as the fair is a really liquid venue as the fair is a really"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "good first approximation and good first approximation and good first approximation and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "I think before I started crypto I think I think before I started crypto I think I think before I started crypto I think"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "way back in the day this was probably way back in the day this was probably way back in the day this was probably"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "the best way to go about it because it the best way to go about it because it the best way to go about it because it"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "were 10 arbitrages between the exchanges were 10 arbitrages between the exchanges were 10 arbitrages between the exchanges"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "the problem was like how do you move the problem was like how do you move the problem was like how do you move"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "money between them not like how do you money between them not like how do you money between them not like how do you"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "predict the price and so this would have predict the price and so this would have predict the price and so this would have"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "worked super well these days there's worked super well these days there's worked super well these days there's"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "it's been an interesting trajectory it's been an interesting trajectory it's been an interesting trajectory"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "where it's been splitting splintering of where it's been splitting splintering of where it's been splitting splintering of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "liquidity and then some sort of liquidity and then some sort of liquidity and then some sort of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "consolidation towards binance especially consolidation towards binance especially consolidation towards binance especially"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "recently and so the thing you mentioned recently and so the thing you mentioned recently and so the thing you mentioned"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "is probably a very good place to start is probably a very good place to start is probably a very good place to start"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "it's like just use Finance is fair that it's like just use Finance is fair that it's like just use Finance is fair that"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "being said I think you need to be being said I think you need to be being said I think you need to be"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "careful when just using an external careful when just using an external careful when just using an external"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "source as a fair yeah maybe okx is source as a fair yeah maybe okx is source as a fair yeah maybe okx is"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "lacking couple milliseconds behind and lacking couple milliseconds behind and lacking couple milliseconds behind and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "maybe it's not it's not gonna be this maybe it's not it's not gonna be this maybe it's not it's not gonna be this"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "simple these days but let's say there simple these days but let's say there simple these days but let's say there"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "was just like an opportunity to close was just like an opportunity to close was just like an opportunity to close"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "the art of each time binance moved the art of each time binance moved the art of each time binance moved"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "because nobody was lifting orders on okx because nobody was lifting orders on okx because nobody was lifting orders on okx"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "so you do that and it'll work most of so you do that and it'll work most of so you do that and it'll work most of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "the time but then the time but then the time but then"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "it's crypto so okay X maybe okay they go it's crypto so okay X maybe okay they go it's crypto so okay X maybe okay they go"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "into wallet maintenance and it's no into wallet maintenance and it's no into wallet maintenance and it's no"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "longer possible to withdraw or deposit longer possible to withdraw or deposit longer possible to withdraw or deposit"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "this coin at least between binance and this coin at least between binance and this coin at least between binance and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "KX and now suddenly you'll see the ARB KX and now suddenly you'll see the ARB KX and now suddenly you'll see the ARB"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "can't be closed and the Market's can't be closed and the Market's can't be closed and the Market's"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "diverged and if your Affair is just diverged and if your Affair is just diverged and if your Affair is just"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "Finance price then you might get screwed Finance price then you might get screwed Finance price then you might get screwed"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "there's always subtle even in the super there's always subtle even in the super there's always subtle even in the super"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "simple example it's never going to be as simple example it's never going to be as simple example it's never going to be as"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "simple as okay here's a number that I simple as okay here's a number that I simple as okay here's a number that I"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "pull from some feed and that's my fair pull from some feed and that's my fair pull from some feed and that's my fair"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "but it's certainly a good first but it's certainly a good first but it's certainly a good first"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "approximation that leads nicely into approximation that leads nicely into approximation that leads nicely into"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "where I want to go next which was around where I want to go next which was around where I want to go next which was around"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "the idiosyncrasies of crypto exchanges the idiosyncrasies of crypto exchanges the idiosyncrasies of crypto exchanges"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "and just that historically and just that historically and just that historically"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "reputationally they are notoriously reputationally they are notoriously reputationally they are notoriously"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "unreliable from a technology standpoint unreliable from a technology standpoint unreliable from a technology standpoint"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "you gave the example earlier of the you gave the example earlier of the you gave the example earlier of the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "dirty data where price and volume got dirty data where price and volume got dirty data where price and volume got"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "swapped broken apis poor documentation swapped broken apis poor documentation swapped broken apis poor documentation"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "not all the API endpoints are always not all the API endpoints are always not all the API endpoints are always"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "documented some of them are hidden documented some of them are hidden documented some of them are hidden"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "sometimes you can have different sometimes you can have different sometimes you can have different"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "parameters that no one actually knows parameters that no one actually knows parameters that no one actually knows"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "about I think you had a great Twitter about I think you had a great Twitter about I think you had a great Twitter"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "example about that recently about being example about that recently about being example about that recently about being"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "able to skip the risk engine or have a able to skip the risk engine or have a able to skip the risk engine or have a"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "risk engine run in parallel stuff that risk engine run in parallel stuff that risk engine run in parallel stuff that"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "is completely undocumented that is is completely undocumented that is is completely undocumented that is"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "interesting examples of orthogonal alpha interesting examples of orthogonal alpha interesting examples of orthogonal alpha"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "that doesn't necessarily have to do with that doesn't necessarily have to do with that doesn't necessarily have to do with"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "price prediction around Fair price prediction around Fair price prediction around Fair"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "how much Alpha is there in things like how much Alpha is there in things like how much Alpha is there in things like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "simply understanding the API better than simply understanding the API better than simply understanding the API better than"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "your competitors or measuring the your competitors or measuring the your competitors or measuring the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "latency of endpoints correctly versus latency of endpoints correctly versus latency of endpoints correctly versus"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "say more traditional say more traditional say more traditional"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "statistical Alphas where you're trying statistical Alphas where you're trying statistical Alphas where you're trying"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "to use the order book to guess pressure to use the order book to guess pressure to use the order book to guess pressure"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "and Direction the Tweet you're referring and Direction the Tweet you're referring and Direction the Tweet you're referring"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "to I think was one of my more popular to I think was one of my more popular to I think was one of my more popular"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "ones which I still don't know whether it ones which I still don't know whether it ones which I still don't know whether it"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "was an April Fool's joke by the way I was an April Fool's joke by the way I was an April Fool's joke by the way I"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "guess April Fool's past so I'm allowed guess April Fool's past so I'm allowed guess April Fool's past so I'm allowed"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "to say it was a joke but it's closer to to say it was a joke but it's closer to to say it was a joke but it's closer to"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "reality than people think so I think the reality than people think so I think the reality than people think so I think the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "real joke is that it's actually kind of real joke is that it's actually kind of real joke is that it's actually kind of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "true I've been meaning to do a follow-up true I've been meaning to do a follow-up true I've been meaning to do a follow-up"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "on that that's a good reminder I should on that that's a good reminder I should on that that's a good reminder I should"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "go and tweet that after this podcast but go and tweet that after this podcast but go and tweet that after this podcast but"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "I think your intuition is good I think I think your intuition is good I think I think your intuition is good I think"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "when you work at a Quant company you when you work at a Quant company you when you work at a Quant company you"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "start to develop preferences or maybe start to develop preferences or maybe start to develop preferences or maybe"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "you come in with preference of what you you come in with preference of what you you come in with preference of what you"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "want to work on like oh yeah I studied want to work on like oh yeah I studied want to work on like oh yeah I studied"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "math so I'm just gonna make cool machine math so I'm just gonna make cool machine math so I'm just gonna make cool machine"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "learning models and find signals and learning models and find signals and learning models and find signals and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "generate Alpha that's what matters generate Alpha that's what matters generate Alpha that's what matters"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "because that's the hardest thing to do because that's the hardest thing to do because that's the hardest thing to do"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "and I think that kind of attitude maybe and I think that kind of attitude maybe and I think that kind of attitude maybe"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "works at a big company because people works at a big company because people works at a big company because people"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "are so specialized but if you're trying are so specialized but if you're trying are so specialized but if you're trying"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "to run hft on your own then you're not to run hft on your own then you're not to run hft on your own then you're not"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "going to get anywhere that attitude so going to get anywhere that attitude so going to get anywhere that attitude so"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "the sort of dirty work that you're the sort of dirty work that you're the sort of dirty work that you're"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "mentioning understanding the API as well mentioning understanding the API as well mentioning understanding the API as well"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "seeing what's missing in the seeing what's missing in the seeing what's missing in the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "documentation measuring latencies this documentation measuring latencies this documentation measuring latencies this"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "kind of stuff is super important kind of stuff is super important kind of stuff is super important"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "my mental model for high frequency my mental model for high frequency my mental model for high frequency"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "trading is or really just like things in trading is or really just like things in trading is or really just like things in"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "life is that it's like a product of many life is that it's like a product of many life is that it's like a product of many"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "numbers so as a Quant you know I still numbers so as a Quant you know I still numbers so as a Quant you know I still"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "want to be quantitative about it it's want to be quantitative about it it's want to be quantitative about it it's"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "not additive your efforts into different not additive your efforts into different not additive your efforts into different"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "bins are additive in those bins you bins are additive in those bins you bins are additive in those bins you"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "might make your model a little bit might make your model a little bit might make your model a little bit"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "better maybe you like spend 10x time in better maybe you like spend 10x time in better maybe you like spend 10x time in"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "it like make 10x stuff Delta there but it like make 10x stuff Delta there but it like make 10x stuff Delta there but"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "at the end of the day it's the product at the end of the day it's the product at the end of the day it's the product"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "so it's like infrastructure times model so it's like infrastructure times model so it's like infrastructure times model"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "for example for example for example"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "as a concrete example if your as a concrete example if your as a concrete example if your"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "infrastructure is at one and your infrastructure is at one and your infrastructure is at one and your"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "modeling is at ten then where you're modeling is at ten then where you're modeling is at ten then where you're"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "going to spend your unit of work like going to spend your unit of work like going to spend your unit of work like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "obviously you can mathematically see you obviously you can mathematically see you obviously you can mathematically see you"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "should always work on the thing that is should always work on the thing that is should always work on the thing that is"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "smallest and the tough thing about hfp smallest and the tough thing about hfp smallest and the tough thing about hfp"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "is like it's kind of hard to know what is like it's kind of hard to know what is like it's kind of hard to know what"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "these things are in the formula for like these things are in the formula for like these things are in the formula for like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "animals playing together when we started animals playing together when we started animals playing together when we started"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "we thought it would be modeling work but we thought it would be modeling work but we thought it would be modeling work but"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "it's important to sort of have this it's important to sort of have this it's important to sort of have this"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "meta-analysis of like wait am I actually meta-analysis of like wait am I actually meta-analysis of like wait am I actually"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "doing the most important things and you doing the most important things and you doing the most important things and you"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "quickly realize that it's not obvious quickly realize that it's not obvious quickly realize that it's not obvious"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "and there's a lot of Edge and just like and there's a lot of Edge and just like and there's a lot of Edge and just like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "knowing what to work on third to work is knowing what to work on third to work is knowing what to work on third to work is"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "super important it's always about super important it's always about super important it's always about"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "getting the lowest hanging fruit the 80 getting the lowest hanging fruit the 80 getting the lowest hanging fruit the 80"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "20 principle I think especially during 20 principle I think especially during 20 principle I think especially during"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "when things are going well it's easy to when things are going well it's easy to when things are going well it's easy to"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "fall into the Trap of like all right I fall into the Trap of like all right I fall into the Trap of like all right I"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "got the basics down like let me go got the basics down like let me go got the basics down like let me go"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "let me go do some like cool machine let me go do some like cool machine let me go do some like cool machine"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "learning research and do the Innovative learning research and do the Innovative learning research and do the Innovative"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "stuff and we fell into this trap as well stuff and we fell into this trap as well stuff and we fell into this trap as well"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "not that there isn't any Alpha there but not that there isn't any Alpha there but not that there isn't any Alpha there but"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "it's a lot of work for like diminishing it's a lot of work for like diminishing it's a lot of work for like diminishing"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "returns and so when you're on a small returns and so when you're on a small returns and so when you're on a small"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "team and there are still a lot of team and there are still a lot of team and there are still a lot of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "opportunities and your strategy is doing opportunities and your strategy is doing opportunities and your strategy is doing"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "well it's always good to like actually well it's always good to like actually well it's always good to like actually"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "ask yourself and be honest don't be ask yourself and be honest don't be ask yourself and be honest don't be"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "convinced by what the data tells you you convinced by what the data tells you you convinced by what the data tells you you"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "need to work need to work need to work"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "for those who are keen on starting out for those who are keen on starting out for those who are keen on starting out"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "in high frequency trading and crypto in high frequency trading and crypto in high frequency trading and crypto"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "you've recommended that they either just you've recommended that they either just you've recommended that they either just"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "go make markets on binance and focus on go make markets on binance and focus on go make markets on binance and focus on"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "Alpha generation which I sort of Alpha generation which I sort of Alpha generation which I sort of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "interpreted as taking not making interpreted as taking not making interpreted as taking not making"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "or picking some long tail exchange and or picking some long tail exchange and or picking some long tail exchange and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "trying to figure out the infrastructure trying to figure out the infrastructure trying to figure out the infrastructure"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "quirks around that long tail exchange quirks around that long tail exchange quirks around that long tail exchange"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "and that's a good source of edge can you and that's a good source of edge can you and that's a good source of edge can you"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "elaborate on why you think these are the elaborate on why you think these are the elaborate on why you think these are the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "two best Avenues and how the approaches two best Avenues and how the approaches two best Avenues and how the approaches"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "differ it's a bit like the bell curve differ it's a bit like the bell curve differ it's a bit like the bell curve"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "Meme and you just don't want to be that Meme and you just don't want to be that Meme and you just don't want to be that"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "guy in the middle guy in the middle guy in the middle"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "in this case if you view the velcrove as in this case if you view the velcrove as in this case if you view the velcrove as"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "like the exchanges then the big problem like the exchanges then the big problem like the exchanges then the big problem"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "is the middle exchanges maybe say like is the middle exchanges maybe say like is the middle exchanges maybe say like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "no rank two through seven or something no rank two through seven or something no rank two through seven or something"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "you have a lot less volume in binance you have a lot less volume in binance you have a lot less volume in binance"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "but about the same level of but about the same level of but about the same level of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "competitiveness and toxic flow and the competitiveness and toxic flow and the competitiveness and toxic flow and the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "flow can be worse than binance because flow can be worse than binance because flow can be worse than binance because"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "at least Finance as we know the reason at least Finance as we know the reason at least Finance as we know the reason"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "your volume is so high is that they have your volume is so high is that they have your volume is so high is that they have"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "complete Stranglehold over retail volume complete Stranglehold over retail volume complete Stranglehold over retail volume"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "I don't know how they do it but they do I don't know how they do it but they do I don't know how they do it but they do"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "that's just the numbers speak for that's just the numbers speak for that's just the numbers speak for"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "themselves and so you don't get that themselves and so you don't get that themselves and so you don't get that"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "padding that like nice mix of toxic and padding that like nice mix of toxic and padding that like nice mix of toxic and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "Retail flow the big hft firms have all Retail flow the big hft firms have all Retail flow the big hft firms have all"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "onboarded the top I don't know how many onboarded the top I don't know how many onboarded the top I don't know how many"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "like let's say top 15 they've definitely like let's say top 15 they've definitely like let's say top 15 they've definitely"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "onboarded and so they're going to be onboarded and so they're going to be onboarded and so they're going to be"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "trading full capacity taker strategies trading full capacity taker strategies trading full capacity taker strategies"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "and you're not going to get much juice and you're not going to get much juice and you're not going to get much juice"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "there so if you're willing to like there so if you're willing to like there so if you're willing to like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "challenge yourself to do that super challenge yourself to do that super challenge yourself to do that super"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "scalable scalable scalable"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "large centralized exchange trading large centralized exchange trading large centralized exchange trading"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "strategies they just start with finance strategies they just start with finance strategies they just start with finance"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "and it will generalize as well as it and it will generalize as well as it and it will generalize as well as it"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "does and there's no point in studying in does and there's no point in studying in does and there's no point in studying in"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "the middle but the other thing you the middle but the other thing you the middle but the other thing you"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "mentioned is again you can also be like mentioned is again you can also be like mentioned is again you can also be like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "super left the bell curve there's no super left the bell curve there's no super left the bell curve there's no"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "shame in just like finding a super small shame in just like finding a super small shame in just like finding a super small"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "opportunity something that is overlooked opportunity something that is overlooked opportunity something that is overlooked"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "by the big players or just doesn't have by the big players or just doesn't have by the big players or just doesn't have"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "enough capacity for it to be worth their enough capacity for it to be worth their enough capacity for it to be worth their"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "time and I think Niche infrastructure is time and I think Niche infrastructure is time and I think Niche infrastructure is"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "a super good example of this exchanges a super good example of this exchanges a super good example of this exchanges"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "are written by people so just like in are written by people so just like in are written by people so just like in"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "with dexes the protocol designs can be with dexes the protocol designs can be with dexes the protocol designs can be"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "just outright dumb you can see this to a just outright dumb you can see this to a just outright dumb you can see this to a"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "lesser extent on a lot of how smaller lesser extent on a lot of how smaller lesser extent on a lot of how smaller"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "centralized exchanges goes to write centralized exchanges goes to write centralized exchanges goes to write"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "their Tech and if you're the only one their Tech and if you're the only one their Tech and if you're the only one"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "who has this insight into how that works who has this insight into how that works who has this insight into how that works"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "then that can be a strategy then that can be a strategy then that can be a strategy"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "infrastructure is actually like often a infrastructure is actually like often a infrastructure is actually like often a"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "big source for Alpha and there's not big source for Alpha and there's not big source for Alpha and there's not"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "such a clean line between the two and in such a clean line between the two and in such a clean line between the two and in"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "this case you have a problem this case you have a problem this case you have a problem"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "it's not really a problem but like you it's not really a problem but like you it's not really a problem but like you"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "might be concerned oh this doesn't might be concerned oh this doesn't might be concerned oh this doesn't"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "generalize like okay I understand how generalize like okay I understand how generalize like okay I understand how"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "attack on this random small exchange attack on this random small exchange attack on this random small exchange"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "works that's not to help me on finance works that's not to help me on finance works that's not to help me on finance"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "and yes that's true but I think people and yes that's true but I think people and yes that's true but I think people"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "undervalue just having something that undervalue just having something that undervalue just having something that"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "works live that should just be works live that should just be works live that should just be"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "everyone's number one priority and it everyone's number one priority and it everyone's number one priority and it"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "really shouldn't matter how small I really shouldn't matter how small I really shouldn't matter how small I"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "guess there's sort of a floor on like guess there's sort of a floor on like guess there's sort of a floor on like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "how small it can yeah unless you're how small it can yeah unless you're how small it can yeah unless you're"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "looking at like super weird things if looking at like super weird things if looking at like super weird things if"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "you're training someone a volume like you're training someone a volume like you're training someone a volume like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "you're gonna make some money and if that you're gonna make some money and if that you're gonna make some money and if that"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "is high sharp distant and robust to sort is high sharp distant and robust to sort is high sharp distant and robust to sort"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "of tail events then you've got something of tail events then you've got something of tail events then you've got something"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "that that that"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "99 people don't and yeah did maybe the 99 people don't and yeah did maybe the 99 people don't and yeah did maybe the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "exact strategy doesn't generalize but in exact strategy doesn't generalize but in exact strategy doesn't generalize but in"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "my experience you get the Reps in for my experience you get the Reps in for my experience you get the Reps in for"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "the full research Loop like putting the full research Loop like putting the full research Loop like putting"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "things into production you learn so much things into production you learn so much things into production you learn so much"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "during that that then even just during that that then even just during that that then even just"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "scrapping it and going for binance at scrapping it and going for binance at scrapping it and going for binance at"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "that point will be just orders of that point will be just orders of that point will be just orders of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "magnitude easier and also like often magnitude easier and also like often magnitude easier and also like often"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "little things like yeah maybe the tech little things like yeah maybe the tech little things like yeah maybe the tech"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "isn't like exactly the same on other isn't like exactly the same on other isn't like exactly the same on other"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "exchanges but you start to notice these exchanges but you start to notice these exchanges but you start to notice these"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "principles and you start to get this principles and you start to get this principles and you start to get this"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "Fountain of or just like endless stream Fountain of or just like endless stream Fountain of or just like endless stream"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "of ideas from other things that already of ideas from other things that already of ideas from other things that already"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "work and those types of ideas tend to be work and those types of ideas tend to be work and those types of ideas tend to be"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "way better than things you just [ __ ] out way better than things you just [ __ ] out way better than things you just [ __ ] out"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "of there I think there's a lot of value of there I think there's a lot of value of there I think there's a lot of value"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "to both coaches I'd say if you're not to both coaches I'd say if you're not to both coaches I'd say if you're not"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "sure then start with the small stuff sure then start with the small stuff sure then start with the small stuff"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "often and then start with the big stuff often and then start with the big stuff often and then start with the big stuff"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "honestly just try both you use this very honestly just try both you use this very honestly just try both you use this very"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "toxic flow and you define what toxic toxic flow and you define what toxic toxic flow and you define what toxic"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "flow is for people who've never heard flow is for people who've never heard flow is for people who've never heard"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "that phrase before it's basically that phrase before it's basically that phrase before it's basically"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "informed flow so a mental model for how informed flow so a mental model for how informed flow so a mental model for how"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "I saw crypto grow up was when I came in I saw crypto grow up was when I came in I saw crypto grow up was when I came in"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "it was already a little bit late so I it was already a little bit late so I it was already a little bit late so I"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "can only imagine projecting back in time can only imagine projecting back in time can only imagine projecting back in time"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "what it looked like but even when I came what it looked like but even when I came what it looked like but even when I came"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "in it was quite a lot of retail and in it was quite a lot of retail and in it was quite a lot of retail and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "there were big players playing but the there were big players playing but the there were big players playing but the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "balance was still that there was not balance was still that there was not balance was still that there was not"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "enough liquidity for what retail is enough liquidity for what retail is enough liquidity for what retail is"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "demanding and so retail flow is like demanding and so retail flow is like demanding and so retail flow is like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "what you want to Target the super what you want to Target the super what you want to Target the super"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "obvious things are like you just write obvious things are like you just write obvious things are like you just write"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "generic maker strategies that post generic maker strategies that post generic maker strategies that post"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "liquidity like we talked about earlier liquidity like we talked about earlier liquidity like we talked about earlier"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "with making versus taking with making versus taking with making versus taking"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "if retail comes in and trades against if retail comes in and trades against if retail comes in and trades against"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "your making orders you're going to keep your making orders you're going to keep your making orders you're going to keep"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "most of that spread that they crossed most of that spread that they crossed most of that spread that they crossed"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "you just do that and it makes money and you just do that and it makes money and you just do that and it makes money and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "so that's a strong sign that flows by so that's a strong sign that flows by so that's a strong sign that flows by"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "and large retail but over time you see and large retail but over time you see and large retail but over time you see"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "like people notice this they put up like people notice this they put up like people notice this they put up"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "their microstrategies and then when their microstrategies and then when their microstrategies and then when"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "there's more liquidity from the makers there's more liquidity from the makers there's more liquidity from the makers"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "it suddenly makes sense for people to it suddenly makes sense for people to it suddenly makes sense for people to"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "run taker strategies and spreads get run taker strategies and spreads get run taker strategies and spreads get"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "smaller people compete to capture this smaller people compete to capture this smaller people compete to capture this"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "really good retail flow and then the really good retail flow and then the really good retail flow and then the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "takers suddenly come in and start takers suddenly come in and start takers suddenly come in and start"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "picking off bad maker orders this is picking off bad maker orders this is picking off bad maker orders this is"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "just how markets evolve there's a lot of just how markets evolve there's a lot of just how markets evolve there's a lot of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "value that the takers provide as well value that the takers provide as well value that the takers provide as well"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "it's not clear that the makeup orders it's not clear that the makeup orders it's not clear that the makeup orders"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "are all market makers and they take are all market makers and they take are all market makers and they take"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "orders are retail it's a bit of a mix orders are retail it's a bit of a mix orders are retail it's a bit of a mix"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "and so and so and so"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "the best Market is just in my opinion the best Market is just in my opinion the best Market is just in my opinion"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "it's just one where people are free to it's just one where people are free to it's just one where people are free to"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "trade but from the Maker's perspective trade but from the Maker's perspective trade but from the Maker's perspective"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "these takers are super annoying like these takers are super annoying like these takers are super annoying like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "they used to have this super easy they used to have this super easy they used to have this super easy"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "strategy where you just like put orders strategy where you just like put orders strategy where you just like put orders"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "out and like every time we got hit you out and like every time we got hit you out and like every time we got hit you"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "made a little bit of money but all of a made a little bit of money but all of a made a little bit of money but all of a"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "sudden this like one percent tale of sudden this like one percent tale of sudden this like one percent tale of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "Trades you're getting you're losing 10 Trades you're getting you're losing 10 Trades you're getting you're losing 10"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "basis points on and that always love one basis points on and that always love one basis points on and that always love one"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "basis point you're collecting from all basis point you're collecting from all basis point you're collecting from all"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "the retails something like that a bit of the retails something like that a bit of the retails something like that a bit of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "a mental model so yeah the toxic flow is a mental model so yeah the toxic flow is a mental model so yeah the toxic flow is"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "basically these figures and it kind of basically these figures and it kind of basically these figures and it kind of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "depends on who you're asking whether the depends on who you're asking whether the depends on who you're asking whether the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "flow is toxic so it depends on the flow is toxic so it depends on the flow is toxic so it depends on the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "strategy you're running but there's this strategy you're running but there's this strategy you're running but there's this"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "General split between retail and General split between retail and General split between retail and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "sophisticated sophisticated sophisticated"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "while talking about sophisticated flow while talking about sophisticated flow while talking about sophisticated flow"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "that I'm I'm sure any high frequency that I'm I'm sure any high frequency that I'm I'm sure any high frequency"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "Trader would consider toxic is the idea Trader would consider toxic is the idea Trader would consider toxic is the idea"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "of sort of an adverse algorithm that of sort of an adverse algorithm that of sort of an adverse algorithm that"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "tricks your algorithm so crypto is tricks your algorithm so crypto is tricks your algorithm so crypto is"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "was is in many ways still just the wild was is in many ways still just the wild was is in many ways still just the wild"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "west and there is a degree of explicit west and there is a degree of explicit west and there is a degree of explicit"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "Market manipulation that would likely be Market manipulation that would likely be Market manipulation that would likely be"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "considered illegal in most traditional considered illegal in most traditional considered illegal in most traditional"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "markets and it will be used against you markets and it will be used against you markets and it will be used against you"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "to trick and exploit any of your to trick and exploit any of your to trick and exploit any of your"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "automated high frequency trading automated high frequency trading automated high frequency trading"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "strategies I would love to know how much strategies I would love to know how much strategies I would love to know how much"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "you ran across this kind of adversarial you ran across this kind of adversarial you ran across this kind of adversarial"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "Behavior maybe you can share an example Behavior maybe you can share an example Behavior maybe you can share an example"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "of an experience you had in the wild and of an experience you had in the wild and of an experience you had in the wild and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "having run high frequency trading having run high frequency trading having run high frequency trading"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "strategies how you think about strategies how you think about strategies how you think about"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "protecting yourself from it it is indeed protecting yourself from it it is indeed protecting yourself from it it is indeed"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "the wild west I think the positive way the wild west I think the positive way the wild west I think the positive way"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "to look at to look at to look at"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "crypto is it's also an experiment your crypto is it's also an experiment your crypto is it's also an experiment your"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "perspective matters a lot so Regulators perspective matters a lot so Regulators perspective matters a lot so Regulators"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "will obviously latch on to this oh they will obviously latch on to this oh they will obviously latch on to this oh they"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "don't follow our don't follow our don't follow our"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "carefully researched Securities laws but carefully researched Securities laws but carefully researched Securities laws but"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "defy proponents will say these defy proponents will say these defy proponents will say these"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "Securities laws Securities laws Securities laws"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "really are probably the result of a lot really are probably the result of a lot really are probably the result of a lot"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "of lobbying and human judgment and maybe of lobbying and human judgment and maybe of lobbying and human judgment and maybe"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "crypto is an opportunity to look at a crypto is an opportunity to look at a crypto is an opportunity to look at a"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "more libertarian experiment what do we more libertarian experiment what do we more libertarian experiment what do we"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "actually eat to regulate and I don't actually eat to regulate and I don't actually eat to regulate and I don't"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "know the truth is somewhere in between know the truth is somewhere in between know the truth is somewhere in between"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "those two I think I'm not a regulator a those two I think I'm not a regulator a those two I think I'm not a regulator a"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "policy maker but that's my philosophical policy maker but that's my philosophical policy maker but that's my philosophical"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "thoughts on that but yeah certainly like thoughts on that but yeah certainly like thoughts on that but yeah certainly like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "from a practical perspective if you you from a practical perspective if you you from a practical perspective if you you"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "don't pay attention to these don't pay attention to these don't pay attention to these"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "manipulative extractive strategies then manipulative extractive strategies then manipulative extractive strategies then"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "you're gonna have a hard time doing you're gonna have a hard time doing you're gonna have a hard time doing"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "crypto a shift it's also not that the crypto a shift it's also not that the crypto a shift it's also not that the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "exchanges don't want to regulate it but exchanges don't want to regulate it but exchanges don't want to regulate it but"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "it's not clear it's not clear it's not clear"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "which bodies regulate which exchanges which bodies regulate which exchanges which bodies regulate which exchanges"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "certainly is not clear to me and I think certainly is not clear to me and I think certainly is not clear to me and I think"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "a lot of these laws are country maybe a lot of these laws are country maybe a lot of these laws are country maybe"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "that's a bit of why this happened and that's a bit of why this happened and that's a bit of why this happened and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "it's just hard to run an exchange so it's just hard to run an exchange so it's just hard to run an exchange so"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "they've got other things to worry about they've got other things to worry about they've got other things to worry about"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "so concrete examples I think spoofing is so concrete examples I think spoofing is so concrete examples I think spoofing is"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "a really big one a really big one a really big one"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "and by spoofing I don't really know the and by spoofing I don't really know the and by spoofing I don't really know the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "technical definitions I think there are technical definitions I think there are technical definitions I think there are"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "many terms in U"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "S Securities and Futures many terms in U"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "S Securities and Futures many terms in U"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "S Securities and Futures"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "laws but I just mean broadly when I say laws but I just mean broadly when I say laws but I just mean broadly when I say"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "spoofing is just you see it very clearly spoofing is just you see it very clearly spoofing is just you see it very clearly"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "on the order books and the resulting on the order books and the resulting on the order books and the resulting"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "price graphs it's like people place price graphs it's like people place price graphs it's like people place"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "these massive orders that they clearly these massive orders that they clearly these massive orders that they clearly"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "don't want to get executed in some sense don't want to get executed in some sense don't want to get executed in some sense"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "like if they were executed they would be like if they were executed they would be like if they were executed they would be"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "unhappy hard to prove intent but it's unhappy hard to prove intent but it's unhappy hard to prove intent but it's"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "very clear these orders are not get very clear these orders are not get very clear these orders are not get"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "filled they're to give the impression filled they're to give the impression filled they're to give the impression"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "that there is demand on that side of the that there is demand on that side of the that there is demand on that side of the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "book and as a result if there's some book and as a result if there's some book and as a result if there's some"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "algo that is looking at the liquidity on algo that is looking at the liquidity on algo that is looking at the liquidity on"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "the order book as a signal for where the the order book as a signal for where the the order book as a signal for where the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "price will go then hopefully tricking price will go then hopefully tricking price will go then hopefully tricking"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "these maybe to place orders on the side these maybe to place orders on the side these maybe to place orders on the side"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "that they want and then depending on that they want and then depending on that they want and then depending on"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "what trickery is accomplished in the what trickery is accomplished in the what trickery is accomplished in the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "spoofing algorithm can then either place spoofing algorithm can then either place spoofing algorithm can then either place"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "making orders that get aggressed into or making orders that get aggressed into or making orders that get aggressed into or"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "even aggress against passive orders that even aggress against passive orders that even aggress against passive orders that"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "are placed mistakenly I guess I mean are placed mistakenly I guess I mean are placed mistakenly I guess I mean"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "that's a super common example another that's a super common example another that's a super common example another"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "one is like I don't know if this is like one is like I don't know if this is like one is like I don't know if this is like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "really Market manipulation but there are really Market manipulation but there are really Market manipulation but there are"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "certainly these bump and dump circles certainly these bump and dump circles certainly these bump and dump circles"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "for fun I sort of like joined a few for fun I sort of like joined a few for fun I sort of like joined a few"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "never participated just it was a lurker never participated just it was a lurker never participated just it was a lurker"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "and man these things are quite something and man these things are quite something and man these things are quite something"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "and I think they've been cleaned up a and I think they've been cleaned up a and I think they've been cleaned up a"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "lot recently which is cool but back in lot recently which is cool but back in lot recently which is cool but back in"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "the day they would generate crazy volume the day they would generate crazy volume the day they would generate crazy volume"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "it would just basically be like some it would just basically be like some it would just basically be like some"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "Insider announcing some coin and then Insider announcing some coin and then Insider announcing some coin and then"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "all is done retail I have no idea where all is done retail I have no idea where all is done retail I have no idea where"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "they find these people but they managed they find these people but they managed they find these people but they managed"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "to convince a lot of people just like to convince a lot of people just like to convince a lot of people just like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "buy at once and then the Insiders like buy at once and then the Insiders like buy at once and then the Insiders like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "sell into that and imagine hft like you sell into that and imagine hft like you sell into that and imagine hft like you"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "might think that's okay but it's might think that's okay but it's might think that's okay but it's"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "actually surprisingly tricky to navigate actually surprisingly tricky to navigate actually surprisingly tricky to navigate"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "because there's such a strong perversion because there's such a strong perversion because there's such a strong perversion"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "effect that you can kind of be tricked effect that you can kind of be tricked effect that you can kind of be tricked"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "those are two concrete examples those are two concrete examples those are two concrete examples"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "I guess in terms of like dealing with I guess in terms of like dealing with I guess in terms of like dealing with"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "them then it goes back to the earlier them then it goes back to the earlier them then it goes back to the earlier"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "question you had about infrastructure question you had about infrastructure question you had about infrastructure"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "versus versus versus"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "model versus strategy like what do you model versus strategy like what do you model versus strategy like what do you"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "work on and I view this as another work on and I view this as another work on and I view this as another"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "category miscellaneous random stuff that category miscellaneous random stuff that category miscellaneous random stuff that"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "comes up that you just need to do risk comes up that you just need to do risk comes up that you just need to do risk"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "management perhaps risk management yeah management perhaps risk management yeah management perhaps risk management yeah"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "Special scenarios I don't know it's Special scenarios I don't know it's Special scenarios I don't know it's"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "really like if you don't do this and you really like if you don't do this and you really like if you don't do this and you"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "do everything else perfectly depending do everything else perfectly depending do everything else perfectly depending"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "on the on the on the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "regime we're in and what you're trading regime we're in and what you're trading regime we're in and what you're trading"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "this could make or break your average this could make or break your average this could make or break your average"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "piano piano piano"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "I think when we first saw this it was I think when we first saw this it was I think when we first saw this it was"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "pretty scary because I guess we were pretty scary because I guess we were pretty scary because I guess we were"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "lucky when we first started maybe the lucky when we first started maybe the lucky when we first started maybe the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "symbols we were trading on initially symbols we were trading on initially symbols we were trading on initially"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "just were pretty hard to manipulate or just were pretty hard to manipulate or just were pretty hard to manipulate or"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "people haven't gotten around to it yet people haven't gotten around to it yet people haven't gotten around to it yet"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "anyway like we just completely did not anyway like we just completely did not anyway like we just completely did not"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "pursue this problem and naively built in pursue this problem and naively built in pursue this problem and naively built in"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "ignorance of it and got to a point where ignorance of it and got to a point where ignorance of it and got to a point where"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "things are going well things are going well things are going well"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "add this p l and then once we battle for add this p l and then once we battle for add this p l and then once we battle for"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "these tricks it was very dramatic you these tricks it was very dramatic you these tricks it was very dramatic you"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "could lose a day's worth of p l in a could lose a day's worth of p l in a could lose a day's worth of p l in a"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "minute if you don't tune your strategies minute if you don't tune your strategies minute if you don't tune your strategies"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "they will do dumb things and sometimes they will do dumb things and sometimes they will do dumb things and sometimes"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "automated trading is the dumbest trading automated trading is the dumbest trading automated trading is the dumbest trading"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "because it's some simple because it's some simple because it's some simple"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "State machine that has no human State machine that has no human State machine that has no human"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "discretion it will just do what it's discretion it will just do what it's discretion it will just do what it's"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "programmed to do our approach was just programmed to do our approach was just programmed to do our approach was just"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "to be pretty practical about it you to be pretty practical about it you to be pretty practical about it you"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "could sit back and analyze it try to could sit back and analyze it try to could sit back and analyze it try to"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "come up with bottles to predict whether come up with bottles to predict whether come up with bottles to predict whether"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "there's manipulation going on there's manipulation going on there's manipulation going on"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "but in one of our big edges at least but in one of our big edges at least but in one of our big edges at least"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "turning out was that we just moved super turning out was that we just moved super turning out was that we just moved super"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "fast and you didn't really care for like fast and you didn't really care for like fast and you didn't really care for like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "the proper way to do things was very the proper way to do things was very the proper way to do things was very"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "much like ground in the data so for us much like ground in the data so for us much like ground in the data so for us"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "it was like okay this is happening it's it was like okay this is happening it's it was like okay this is happening it's"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "not happening that much so let's just not happening that much so let's just not happening that much so let's just"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "shut it off when we lose money in a shut it off when we lose money in a shut it off when we lose money in a"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "specific pattern specific pattern specific pattern"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "and this is something you can code up in and this is something you can code up in and this is something you can code up in"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "like an hour get out in production and I like an hour get out in production and I like an hour get out in production and I"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "was like the 80 20 back then and yeah was like the 80 20 back then and yeah was like the 80 20 back then and yeah"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "like you're missing out on some like you're missing out on some like you're missing out on some"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "opportunities but it frees up your time opportunities but it frees up your time opportunities but it frees up your time"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "to start to start to start"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "scaling out and working on the things scaling out and working on the things scaling out and working on the things"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "that actually are like 10x multiplies that actually are like 10x multiplies that actually are like 10x multiplies"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "here in p l and not really worry about here in p l and not really worry about here in p l and not really worry about"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "this oh maybe this five percent of the this oh maybe this five percent of the this oh maybe this five percent of the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "time you're like shut off you're losing time you're like shut off you're losing time you're like shut off you're losing"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "something that you could have been something that you could have been something that you could have been"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "making or something so there's a bit of making or something so there's a bit of making or something so there's a bit of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "a judgment call there let's concentrate a judgment call there let's concentrate a judgment call there let's concentrate"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "off of like what's the best thing to be off of like what's the best thing to be off of like what's the best thing to be"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "working on since then we've had a lot working on since then we've had a lot working on since then we've had a lot"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "more time to work on things and so we do more time to work on things and so we do more time to work on things and so we do"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "have more complicated models now of have more complicated models now of have more complicated models now of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "predicting these regimes and like predicting these regimes and like predicting these regimes and like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "figuring out what's going on and instead figuring out what's going on and instead figuring out what's going on and instead"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "during these very discreet actions during these very discreet actions during these very discreet actions"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "rather like having a continuous rather like having a continuous rather like having a continuous"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "adjustment to the strategies and so at adjustment to the strategies and so at adjustment to the strategies and so at"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "this point yeah I think we have a pretty this point yeah I think we have a pretty this point yeah I think we have a pretty"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "good understanding of how these good understanding of how these good understanding of how these"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "manipulators operate and detecting them manipulators operate and detecting them manipulators operate and detecting them"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "but again I think for people starting but again I think for people starting but again I think for people starting"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "out 80 20 principle is super important out 80 20 principle is super important out 80 20 principle is super important"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "do you find that that sort of Market do you find that that sort of Market do you find that that sort of Market"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "manipulation spoofing is more prevalent manipulation spoofing is more prevalent manipulation spoofing is more prevalent"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "in sort of the fatter tale of exchanges in sort of the fatter tale of exchanges in sort of the fatter tale of exchanges"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "with the fatter tale of coins or is that with the fatter tale of coins or is that with the fatter tale of coins or is that"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "something that you will still see even something that you will still see even something that you will still see even"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "on binance with Bitcoin and ethereum on binance with Bitcoin and ethereum on binance with Bitcoin and ethereum"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "it's pretty rare for Bitcoin and it's pretty rare for Bitcoin and it's pretty rare for Bitcoin and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "ethereum on any exchange because there's ethereum on any exchange because there's ethereum on any exchange because there's"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "just a lot more liquidity just a lot more liquidity just a lot more liquidity"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "and I would say it's more about the and I would say it's more about the and I would say it's more about the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "asset and less about the exchange so asset and less about the exchange so asset and less about the exchange so"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "I've seen it on almost all exchanges I've seen it on almost all exchanges I've seen it on almost all exchanges"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "people do different things on different people do different things on different people do different things on different"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "exchanges and control they're like exchanges and control they're like exchanges and control they're like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "different people but they all follow the different people but they all follow the different people but they all follow the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "same patterns there's some sweet spot of same patterns there's some sweet spot of same patterns there's some sweet spot of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "liquidity I guess there's like really no liquidity I guess there's like really no liquidity I guess there's like really no"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "on the token then it may be not worth on the token then it may be not worth on the token then it may be not worth"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "doing but some sort of pale asset that doing but some sort of pale asset that doing but some sort of pale asset that"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "has some volume going on so you can kind has some volume going on so you can kind has some volume going on so you can kind"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "of like trick the Algos like the album of like trick the Algos like the album of like trick the Algos like the album"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "sort of expects some amount of volume sort of expects some amount of volume sort of expects some amount of volume"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "and some amount of trading but you can and some amount of trading but you can and some amount of trading but you can"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "kind of trick them to make some bad kind of trick them to make some bad kind of trick them to make some bad"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "trades I'm a believer that the way we trades I'm a believer that the way we trades I'm a believer that the way we"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "see the market is often influenced by see the market is often influenced by see the market is often influenced by"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "The Horizon over which we trade it The Horizon over which we trade it The Horizon over which we trade it"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "you as a high frequency Trader I think you as a high frequency Trader I think you as a high frequency Trader I think"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "probably have a different perspective of probably have a different perspective of probably have a different perspective of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "the way markets work given your the way markets work given your the way markets work given your"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "intuition around microstructure versus intuition around microstructure versus intuition around microstructure versus"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "say someone like me who operates at a say someone like me who operates at a say someone like me who operates at a"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "longer tail time Horizon that might longer tail time Horizon that might longer tail time Horizon that might"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "focus on more fundamental drivers of focus on more fundamental drivers of focus on more fundamental drivers of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "returns over the long run you had a returns over the long run you had a returns over the long run you had a"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "tweet where you said one mental model tweet where you said one mental model tweet where you said one mental model"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "for markets is a viscous fluid docks to for markets is a viscous fluid docks to for markets is a viscous fluid docks to"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "the system play out as damped the system play out as damped the system play out as damped"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "oscillations in the price Discovery oscillations in the price Discovery oscillations in the price Discovery"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "process I thought that was a really process I thought that was a really process I thought that was a really"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "interesting idea I was hoping you could interesting idea I was hoping you could interesting idea I was hoping you could"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "talk about that a little bit expand upon talk about that a little bit expand upon talk about that a little bit expand upon"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "what you meant with that quote what you meant with that quote what you meant with that quote"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "I'm a big believer as well in the I'm a big believer as well in the I'm a big believer as well in the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "fundamental understanding of things it fundamental understanding of things it fundamental understanding of things it"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "was kind of like the math and physics was kind of like the math and physics was kind of like the math and physics"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "upbringing I had it's like if I don't upbringing I had it's like if I don't upbringing I had it's like if I don't"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "understand it then I find it hard to understand it then I find it hard to understand it then I find it hard to"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "innovate on innovate on innovate on"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "this sort of black box and so I like to this sort of black box and so I like to this sort of black box and so I like to"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "just come up with these mental analogies just come up with these mental analogies just come up with these mental analogies"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "sort of metaphors for how things work sort of metaphors for how things work sort of metaphors for how things work"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "if it is viscous fluid model if it is viscous fluid model if it is viscous fluid model"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "maybe the right question is like why maybe the right question is like why maybe the right question is like why"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "does hft even make money and does hft even make money and does hft even make money and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "you ask retail often they view it as a you ask retail often they view it as a you ask retail often they view it as a"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "predatory thing uh they're front running predatory thing uh they're front running predatory thing uh they're front running"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "with us or like I don't know hunting our with us or like I don't know hunting our with us or like I don't know hunting our"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "stops or whatever but I'm not saying stops or whatever but I'm not saying stops or whatever but I'm not saying"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "that hft is doing God's work or anything that hft is doing God's work or anything that hft is doing God's work or anything"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "but I think that it's providing a needed but I think that it's providing a needed but I think that it's providing a needed"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "service to these markets so in terms of service to these markets so in terms of service to these markets so in terms of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "these like shocks to the system these like shocks to the system these like shocks to the system"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "our model is like outside of Market our model is like outside of Market our model is like outside of Market"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "structure an abstract price moves as structure an abstract price moves as structure an abstract price moves as"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "these like external factors that are these like external factors that are these like external factors that are"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "essentially random for our purposes essentially random for our purposes essentially random for our purposes"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "maybe somebody maybe somebody maybe somebody"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "just needs to buy a lot and like just needs to buy a lot and like just needs to buy a lot and like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "demands of liquidity now maybe there's a demands of liquidity now maybe there's a demands of liquidity now maybe there's a"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "news event moving the actual fair value news event moving the actual fair value news event moving the actual fair value"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "of this token and so some people are of this token and so some people are of this token and so some people are"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "gonna like trade that but gonna like trade that but gonna like trade that but"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "this demand kind of just comes out of this demand kind of just comes out of this demand kind of just comes out of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "nowhere and often buy them leave it's nowhere and often buy them leave it's nowhere and often buy them leave it's"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "the book it's like a pretty PVP scenario the book it's like a pretty PVP scenario the book it's like a pretty PVP scenario"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "so there's a lot of urgency for people so there's a lot of urgency for people so there's a lot of urgency for people"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "to execute and it's often it can be a to execute and it's often it can be a to execute and it's often it can be a"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "cycle like some people might be trading cycle like some people might be trading cycle like some people might be trading"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "off momentum or like trades can trigger off momentum or like trades can trigger off momentum or like trades can trigger"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "other trades and there's a lot of other trades and there's a lot of other trades and there's a lot of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "unstable equilibria unstable equilibria unstable equilibria"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "but it'll be like a big shock and then but it'll be like a big shock and then but it'll be like a big shock and then"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "people come in and almost have this like people come in and almost have this like people come in and almost have this like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "discussion about discussion about discussion about"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "what the actual fare is and so the first what the actual fare is and so the first what the actual fare is and so the first"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "move would be the biggest and then often move would be the biggest and then often move would be the biggest and then often"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "maybe they'll say oh like we overshot maybe they'll say oh like we overshot maybe they'll say oh like we overshot"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "some will come in and like trade that some will come in and like trade that some will come in and like trade that"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "mean reversion maybe it's like a medium mean reversion maybe it's like a medium mean reversion maybe it's like a medium"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "frequency Trader or maybe it's a high frequency Trader or maybe it's a high frequency Trader or maybe it's a high"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "frequency Trader who like just knows frequency Trader who like just knows frequency Trader who like just knows"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "like oh five seconds from now the fair like oh five seconds from now the fair like oh five seconds from now the fair"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "price price price"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "and then someone else might say oh no no and then someone else might say oh no no and then someone else might say oh no no"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "this is like a much bigger deal then this is like a much bigger deal then this is like a much bigger deal then"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "we're gonna start tee-wopping until the we're gonna start tee-wopping until the we're gonna start tee-wopping until the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "price hits 20 increase or something Elon price hits 20 increase or something Elon price hits 20 increase or something Elon"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "adding Doge to Twitter is like a real adding Doge to Twitter is like a real adding Doge to Twitter is like a real"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "thing and like you guys are wrong and so thing and like you guys are wrong and so thing and like you guys are wrong and so"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "like they'll like go pick off the like like they'll like go pick off the like like they'll like go pick off the like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "mean reversion Traders and so there's mean reversion Traders and so there's mean reversion Traders and so there's"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "almost like this big discussion slash almost like this big discussion slash almost like this big discussion slash"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "battle going on between the different battle going on between the different battle going on between the different"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "actors but the key characteristic is actors but the key characteristic is actors but the key characteristic is"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "like the moves get smaller and smaller like the moves get smaller and smaller like the moves get smaller and smaller"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "right people are kind of voting with right people are kind of voting with right people are kind of voting with"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "their money and like more or less people their money and like more or less people their money and like more or less people"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "get into the positions that they want to get into the positions that they want to get into the positions that they want to"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "get into and then there's sort of this get into and then there's sort of this get into and then there's sort of this"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "like dollar weighted averaging going on like dollar weighted averaging going on like dollar weighted averaging going on"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "and the price settles at the fair like and the price settles at the fair like and the price settles at the fair like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "that's kind of how markets work within that's kind of how markets work within that's kind of how markets work within"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "all this chaos hft is like the Mandate all this chaos hft is like the Mandate all this chaos hft is like the Mandate"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "is to like Buy Low and sell high if you is to like Buy Low and sell high if you is to like Buy Low and sell high if you"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "think about that just like the squiggly think about that just like the squiggly think about that just like the squiggly"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "line that's like moving up and down all line that's like moving up and down all line that's like moving up and down all"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "over the place you may Shifty on average over the place you may Shifty on average over the place you may Shifty on average"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "buys when the squiggly line is low and buys when the squiggly line is low and buys when the squiggly line is low and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "salesman School line is high then the salesman School line is high then the salesman School line is high then the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "market impact of hft average is to market impact of hft average is to market impact of hft average is to"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "smooth out this squiggly line and that smooth out this squiggly line and that smooth out this squiggly line and that"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "is good for everyone it makes the price is good for everyone it makes the price is good for everyone it makes the price"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "snap to the fair price much faster and snap to the fair price much faster and snap to the fair price much faster and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "it sort of ensures that it's as close to it sort of ensures that it's as close to it sort of ensures that it's as close to"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "Fair as possible along its trajectory Fair as possible along its trajectory Fair as possible along its trajectory"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "and so it's sort of like the better the and so it's sort of like the better the and so it's sort of like the better the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "hft is that's like the more liquidity hft is that's like the more liquidity hft is that's like the more liquidity"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "there is on your Market the more like there is on your Market the more like there is on your Market the more like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "viscous this fluid is viscous this fluid is viscous this fluid is"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "I don't know how full this mental model I don't know how full this mental model I don't know how full this mental model"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "is but that was what the Tweet was about is but that was what the Tweet was about is but that was what the Tweet was about"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "you asked me whether I thought hft p l you asked me whether I thought hft p l you asked me whether I thought hft p l"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "was was was"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "positively auto-correlated I could positively auto-correlated I could positively auto-correlated I could"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "probably come up with some arguments as probably come up with some arguments as probably come up with some arguments as"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "to why it would be I could see it being to why it would be I could see it being to why it would be I could see it being"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "regime dependent I could see it regime dependent I could see it regime dependent I could see it"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "particularly on the left tail once you particularly on the left tail once you particularly on the left tail once you"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "start incurring losses I could see it start incurring losses I could see it start incurring losses I could see it"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "simply just being a case where that owl simply just being a case where that owl simply just being a case where that owl"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "go for whatever reason was no longer go for whatever reason was no longer go for whatever reason was no longer"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "Printing and so once you start to lose Printing and so once you start to lose Printing and so once you start to lose"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "money you would continue to lose money money you would continue to lose money money you would continue to lose money"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "you performed an interesting study where you performed an interesting study where you performed an interesting study where"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "you looked at your p l not being you looked at your p l not being you looked at your p l not being"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "autocorrelated to itself but as an input autocorrelated to itself but as an input autocorrelated to itself but as an input"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "to a predictive model on mid-frequency to a predictive model on mid-frequency to a predictive model on mid-frequency"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "prices of the things you were trading prices of the things you were trading prices of the things you were trading"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "and if you asked me whether I thought and if you asked me whether I thought and if you asked me whether I thought"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "your hft p l would be predictive in any your hft p l would be predictive in any your hft p l would be predictive in any"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "way of the prices of the things you were way of the prices of the things you were way of the prices of the things you were"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "trading trading trading"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "I would say maybe not unless they were I would say maybe not unless they were I would say maybe not unless they were"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "taker strategies all in the same taker strategies all in the same taker strategies all in the same"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "direction I wouldn't expect particularly direction I wouldn't expect particularly direction I wouldn't expect particularly"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "like a maker strategy that to be like a maker strategy that to be like a maker strategy that to be"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "predictive you found there actually was predictive you found there actually was predictive you found there actually was"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "some signal there that actually your own some signal there that actually your own some signal there that actually your own"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "p l on the hft side was a meaningful p l on the hft side was a meaningful p l on the hft side was a meaningful"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "predictor of mid frequency price predictor of mid frequency price predictor of mid frequency price"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "movements movements movements"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "explain that to me explain that to me explain that to me"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "this was one of our this was one of our this was one of our"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "crazy ideas so I think I mentioned crazy ideas so I think I mentioned crazy ideas so I think I mentioned"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "earlier that it's almost always better earlier that it's almost always better earlier that it's almost always better"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "to work off of something that already to work off of something that already to work off of something that already"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "works it's just a lot your hit rate's works it's just a lot your hit rate's works it's just a lot your hit rate's"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "going to be a lot higher going to be a lot higher going to be a lot higher"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "I'd have this base to scale off of but I'd have this base to scale off of but I'd have this base to scale off of but"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "we definitely leave room for the one-off we definitely leave room for the one-off we definitely leave room for the one-off"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "crazy Explorations and sometimes they crazy Explorations and sometimes they crazy Explorations and sometimes they"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "pay off so this was one of our more pay off so this was one of our more pay off so this was one of our more"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "successful hobby projects or something successful hobby projects or something successful hobby projects or something"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "we didn't have strong priors going into we didn't have strong priors going into we didn't have strong priors going into"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "the study the motivation mainly was the study the motivation mainly was the study the motivation mainly was"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "hey we have more Capital than we can hey we have more Capital than we can hey we have more Capital than we can"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "deploy The High Frequency strategies deploy The High Frequency strategies deploy The High Frequency strategies"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "we've onboarded kind of exchanges those we've onboarded kind of exchanges those we've onboarded kind of exchanges those"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "are a constant Factor are a constant Factor are a constant Factor"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "scaling it's like diminishing returns scaling it's like diminishing returns scaling it's like diminishing returns"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "because the exchanges get smaller and because the exchanges get smaller and because the exchanges get smaller and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "smaller and so maybe we can get into smaller and so maybe we can get into smaller and so maybe we can get into"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "this whole like mid frequency that's this whole like mid frequency that's this whole like mid frequency that's"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "like the Golden Goose you know sharp like the Golden Goose you know sharp like the Golden Goose you know sharp"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "three sharp four strategies that have NX three sharp four strategies that have NX three sharp four strategies that have NX"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "100x the capacity of hft like sounds 100x the capacity of hft like sounds 100x the capacity of hft like sounds"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "great so that was initial motivation but great so that was initial motivation but great so that was initial motivation but"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "we're generally pretty strong Believers we're generally pretty strong Believers we're generally pretty strong Believers"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "in efficient markets in efficient markets in efficient markets"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "basically yeah we have all this Edge in basically yeah we have all this Edge in basically yeah we have all this Edge in"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "hft but give us some Market data I don't hft but give us some Market data I don't hft but give us some Market data I don't"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "know like daily returns whatever and ask know like daily returns whatever and ask know like daily returns whatever and ask"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "us to predict daily returns and like we us to predict daily returns and like we us to predict daily returns and like we"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "don't know where to start so with that don't know where to start so with that don't know where to start so with that"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "humility this crazy idea was a way to humility this crazy idea was a way to humility this crazy idea was a way to"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "kind of get a foothold into medium kind of get a foothold into medium kind of get a foothold into medium"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "frequency trading often like if you can frequency trading often like if you can frequency trading often like if you can"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "just get some data source that is useful just get some data source that is useful just get some data source that is useful"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "that people don't have that people don't have that people don't have"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "that itself can be a trading strategy that itself can be a trading strategy that itself can be a trading strategy"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "and and and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "not to like send satellites to go look not to like send satellites to go look not to like send satellites to go look"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "at parking lots or whatever like the at parking lots or whatever like the at parking lots or whatever like the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "classic examples are but what data do we classic examples are but what data do we classic examples are but what data do we"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "have it's like well we have our hft p l have it's like well we have our hft p l have it's like well we have our hft p l"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "and like obviously that's private to us and like obviously that's private to us and like obviously that's private to us"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "and obviously that's not random you just and obviously that's not random you just and obviously that's not random you just"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "look at graphs like it's very look at graphs like it's very look at graphs like it's very"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "interesting and if you think about it interesting and if you think about it interesting and if you think about it"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "like what is it correlated with going like what is it correlated with going like what is it correlated with going"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "back to the discussion about toxic back to the discussion about toxic back to the discussion about toxic"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "versus retail flow it's pretty versus retail flow it's pretty versus retail flow it's pretty"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "correlated with the retail flow correlated with the retail flow correlated with the retail flow"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "I guess your prior to generals like if I guess your prior to generals like if I guess your prior to generals like if"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "you can segment some actors in The like you can segment some actors in The like you can segment some actors in The like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "market and like figure out what they're market and like figure out what they're market and like figure out what they're"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "doing then that's a very good signal in doing then that's a very good signal in doing then that's a very good signal in"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "general like prior that I think is general like prior that I think is general like prior that I think is"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "predictive of something the direction is predictive of something the direction is predictive of something the direction is"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "like less obvious so we kind of went in like less obvious so we kind of went in like less obvious so we kind of went in"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "with just saying like Okay we have this with just saying like Okay we have this with just saying like Okay we have this"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "thing it's called this other thing about thing it's called this other thing about thing it's called this other thing about"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "the retail flow and like yeah like the retail flow and like yeah like the retail flow and like yeah like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "that's probably correlated with the that's probably correlated with the that's probably correlated with the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "price price"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "and why don't we just work through it and why don't we just work through it and why don't we just work through it"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "and analyze it that was like the and analyze it that was like the and analyze it that was like the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "motivation so we did this analysis motivation so we did this analysis motivation so we did this analysis"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "we basically regress like various we basically regress like various we basically regress like various"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "p l based features with Delta p l like p l based features with Delta p l like p l based features with Delta p l like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "the derivative of the p l against kind the derivative of the p l against kind the derivative of the p l against kind"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "of like a wide range of mid frequency of like a wide range of mid frequency of like a wide range of mid frequency"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "price units we're also like just not price units we're also like just not price units we're also like just not"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "sure how the mid frequency work goes so sure how the mid frequency work goes so sure how the mid frequency work goes so"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "we kind of cast a wide now okay like we kind of cast a wide now okay like we kind of cast a wide now okay like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "maybe speaking for five minute returns maybe speaking for five minute returns maybe speaking for five minute returns"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "we can actually scale it out to like we can actually scale it out to like we can actually scale it out to like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "hours hours hours"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "that was the whole study we happen to that was the whole study we happen to that was the whole study we happen to"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "have this data because we have a have this data because we have a have this data because we have a"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "dashboard and it like reports all the dashboard and it like reports all the dashboard and it like reports all the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "pmls of all of our strategies so we pmls of all of our strategies so we pmls of all of our strategies so we"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "could also slice it on Exchange on could also slice it on Exchange on could also slice it on Exchange on"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "strategy on symbol so we did all these strategy on symbol so we did all these strategy on symbol so we did all these"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "things things things"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "it's really noisy so I think there are it's really noisy so I think there are it's really noisy so I think there are"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "techniques to deal with this obviously techniques to deal with this obviously techniques to deal with this obviously"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "we wouldn't regress onecoin's p l and we wouldn't regress onecoin's p l and we wouldn't regress onecoin's p l and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "try to like predict that coins mid try to like predict that coins mid try to like predict that coins mid"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "frequency movements I think it's like frequency movements I think it's like frequency movements I think it's like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "way too much noise we basically just did way too much noise we basically just did way too much noise we basically just did"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "an 80 20 on this and like yeah we did an 80 20 on this and like yeah we did an 80 20 on this and like yeah we did"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "some bucketing some binning like some bucketing some binning like some bucketing some binning like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "following our priors to not overfit too following our priors to not overfit too following our priors to not overfit too"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "much and by and large found this pretty much and by and large found this pretty much and by and large found this pretty"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "interesting effect which I think is interesting effect which I think is interesting effect which I think is"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "counterintuitive to everyone I've talked counterintuitive to everyone I've talked counterintuitive to everyone I've talked"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "to about this which is that our hft p l to about this which is that our hft p l to about this which is that our hft p l"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "whether it's maker or taker it doesn't whether it's maker or taker it doesn't whether it's maker or taker it doesn't"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "actually matter is negatively correlated actually matter is negatively correlated actually matter is negatively correlated"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "with returns in crypto with returns in crypto with returns in crypto"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "this effect is like pretty strong but if this effect is like pretty strong but if this effect is like pretty strong but if"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "you zoom in on like actually trying to you zoom in on like actually trying to you zoom in on like actually trying to"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "count so we were like super excited when count so we were like super excited when count so we were like super excited when"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "we saw this by the way we were like holy we saw this by the way we were like holy we saw this by the way we were like holy"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "[ __ ] let's just play we'll just run [ __ ] let's just play we'll just run [ __ ] let's just play we'll just run"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "Nation if you get a loss we'll just Nation if you get a loss we'll just Nation if you get a loss we'll just"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "trade me frequency like things are gonna trade me frequency like things are gonna trade me frequency like things are gonna"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "be great it was a very strong effect I be great it was a very strong effect I be great it was a very strong effect I"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "remember the exact numbers but like tens remember the exact numbers but like tens remember the exact numbers but like tens"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "of Aces points I'm like maybe an hour of Aces points I'm like maybe an hour of Aces points I'm like maybe an hour"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "two hour Horizon it was like very high two hour Horizon it was like very high two hour Horizon it was like very high"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "capacity and so the problem is capacity and so the problem is capacity and so the problem is"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "if you actually look the signal only if you actually look the signal only if you actually look the signal only"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "triggers to tell you to shore there's triggers to tell you to shore there's triggers to tell you to shore there's"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "not like a reverse effect I guess like not like a reverse effect I guess like not like a reverse effect I guess like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "maybe they would be but we don't run our maybe they would be but we don't run our maybe they would be but we don't run our"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "strategies strategies strategies"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "or like between the strategies to not or like between the strategies to not or like between the strategies to not"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "lose money so it's like you make money lose money so it's like you make money lose money so it's like you make money"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "all right short and what are you short all right short and what are you short all right short and what are you short"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "right like you short like the Futures right like you short like the Futures right like you short like the Futures"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "but if you actually look into doing it but if you actually look into doing it but if you actually look into doing it"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "so there's this one effect which is like so there's this one effect which is like so there's this one effect which is like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "funding rates when this happens a lot of funding rates when this happens a lot of funding rates when this happens a lot of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "sophisticated people are shorting and I sophisticated people are shorting and I sophisticated people are shorting and I"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "don't think everyone is using the same don't think everyone is using the same don't think everyone is using the same"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "signal but this is just in general Alpha signal but this is just in general Alpha signal but this is just in general Alpha"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "is super correlated with other Alpha is super correlated with other Alpha is super correlated with other Alpha"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "like people can be looking at like like people can be looking at like like people can be looking at like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "totally different things but at the end totally different things but at the end totally different things but at the end"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "of the day Alpha's like super correlated of the day Alpha's like super correlated of the day Alpha's like super correlated"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "and so I think people are smart and and so I think people are smart and and so I think people are smart and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "they're making the right trades so they're making the right trades so they're making the right trades so"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "there's a funding rate and then there's there's a funding rate and then there's there's a funding rate and then there's"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "this like other thing where like the this like other thing where like the this like other thing where like the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "symbols that perform like absolutely symbols that perform like absolutely symbols that perform like absolutely"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "best sound like outliers like extreme best sound like outliers like extreme best sound like outliers like extreme"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "success we obviously look at those as in success we obviously look at those as in success we obviously look at those as in"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "any study and these were the things that any study and these were the things that any study and these were the things that"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "are very hard to short the net effect is are very hard to short the net effect is are very hard to short the net effect is"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "still interesting because like we still interesting because like we still interesting because like we"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "accumulate inventory when we're trading accumulate inventory when we're trading accumulate inventory when we're trading"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "and you can buy a stimulatory you can and you can buy a stimulatory you can and you can buy a stimulatory you can"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "sort of like internalize between your sort of like internalize between your sort of like internalize between your"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "strategies different firms think about strategies different firms think about strategies different firms think about"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "this differently but there's obviously this differently but there's obviously this differently but there's obviously"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "something you can do even if you didn't something you can do even if you didn't something you can do even if you didn't"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "do that you could just bias your do that you could just bias your do that you could just bias your"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "strategy is when this is like absolutely strategy is when this is like absolutely strategy is when this is like absolutely"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "strongest to like bias to not holding strongest to like bias to not holding strongest to like bias to not holding"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "inventory and like this will have a inventory and like this will have a inventory and like this will have a"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "positive effect but it's not like a positive effect but it's not like a positive effect but it's not like a"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "Surefire like obvious trade you can make Surefire like obvious trade you can make Surefire like obvious trade you can make"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "in isolation I think there's something in isolation I think there's something in isolation I think there's something"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "there with the Futures but I think it there with the Futures but I think it there with the Futures but I think it"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "was not was not was not"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "compelling enough to really look into it compelling enough to really look into it compelling enough to really look into it"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "and make a standalone strategy around and make a standalone strategy around and make a standalone strategy around"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "that which is why I think it's like the that which is why I think it's like the that which is why I think it's like the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "closest thing to Alpha that this is the closest thing to Alpha that this is the closest thing to Alpha that this is the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "kind of stuff that's like shareable on kind of stuff that's like shareable on kind of stuff that's like shareable on"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "Twitter I guess but I think depending on Twitter I guess but I think depending on Twitter I guess but I think depending on"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "your set of strategies and what you're your set of strategies and what you're your set of strategies and what you're"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "running this could actually be like running this could actually be like running this could actually be like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "super actionable Alpha super actionable Alpha super actionable Alpha"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "I was gonna say I love this idea that it I was gonna say I love this idea that it I was gonna say I love this idea that it"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "might not be an actionable alpha in the might not be an actionable alpha in the might not be an actionable alpha in the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "sense that if you actually went to short sense that if you actually went to short sense that if you actually went to short"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "the Futures it might actually be priced the Futures it might actually be priced the Futures it might actually be priced"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "into the funding rate of the futures into the funding rate of the futures into the funding rate of the futures"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "but biasing your inventory is another but biasing your inventory is another but biasing your inventory is another"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "way to actually Implement that Alpha in way to actually Implement that Alpha in way to actually Implement that Alpha in"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "a way that can have a meaningful impact a way that can have a meaningful impact a way that can have a meaningful impact"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "on your p l it reminds me and the on your p l it reminds me and the on your p l it reminds me and the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "frequency I trade DFA for example they frequency I trade DFA for example they frequency I trade DFA for example they"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "don't trade momentum specifically but don't trade momentum specifically but don't trade momentum specifically but"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "when they go to buy value stocks they're when they go to buy value stocks they're when they go to buy value stocks they're"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "going to screen out the ones with really going to screen out the ones with really going to screen out the ones with really"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "low momentum that they're not explicitly low momentum that they're not explicitly low momentum that they're not explicitly"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "incorporating momentum as a factor but incorporating momentum as a factor but incorporating momentum as a factor but"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "they're waiting for that negative they're waiting for that negative they're waiting for that negative"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "momentum which occurs at a totally momentum which occurs at a totally momentum which occurs at a totally"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "different time Horizon do a bait before different time Horizon do a bait before different time Horizon do a bait before"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "they buy their value stocks totally they buy their value stocks totally they buy their value stocks totally"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "different set of factors but similar different set of factors but similar different set of factors but similar"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "idea of taking a theoretically idea of taking a theoretically idea of taking a theoretically"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "orthogonal Alpha signal not trading it orthogonal Alpha signal not trading it orthogonal Alpha signal not trading it"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "explicitly but incorporating it into the explicitly but incorporating it into the explicitly but incorporating it into the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "way you're trading to add some marginal way you're trading to add some marginal way you're trading to add some marginal"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "Edge marginal Improvement to what you're Edge marginal Improvement to what you're Edge marginal Improvement to what you're"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "doing I love that concept doing I love that concept doing I love that concept"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "I was going to add on to that I think I was going to add on to that I think I was going to add on to that I think"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "that's a really interesting example that that's a really interesting example that that's a really interesting example that"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "I hadn't heard of but I've heard of some I hadn't heard of but I've heard of some I hadn't heard of but I've heard of some"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "crazy stories like some manual traders crazy stories like some manual traders crazy stories like some manual traders"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "who swing large size so I seem to know who swing large size so I seem to know who swing large size so I seem to know"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "what they're doing we'll say things like what they're doing we'll say things like what they're doing we'll say things like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "oh yeah in crypto when the 50-day moving oh yeah in crypto when the 50-day moving oh yeah in crypto when the 50-day moving"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "average crosses whatever like that's average crosses whatever like that's average crosses whatever like that's"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "what I it's like I have a signal that's what I it's like I have a signal that's what I it's like I have a signal that's"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "not technical analysis but when that not technical analysis but when that not technical analysis but when that"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "happens that's when I trigger and I happens that's when I trigger and I happens that's when I trigger and I"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "haven't looked at that in particular but haven't looked at that in particular but haven't looked at that in particular but"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "it reminded me a lot of that it's like it reminded me a lot of that it's like it reminded me a lot of that it's like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "waiting for some other thing that you waiting for some other thing that you waiting for some other thing that you"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "think is pretty good about it some think is pretty good about it some think is pretty good about it some"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "conditional signal to change yeah conditional signal to change yeah conditional signal to change yeah"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "fascinating stuff fascinating stuff fascinating stuff"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "one of the things you've mentioned we've one of the things you've mentioned we've one of the things you've mentioned we've"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "been talking a lot about centralized been talking a lot about centralized been talking a lot about centralized"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "exchanges we haven't really talked about exchanges we haven't really talked about exchanges we haven't really talked about"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "on-chain strategies or decentralized on-chain strategies or decentralized on-chain strategies or decentralized"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "exchanges all that much you mentioned exchanges all that much you mentioned exchanges all that much you mentioned"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "one of your favorite discontinued one of your favorite discontinued one of your favorite discontinued"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "on-chain strategies was trading rfqs I on-chain strategies was trading rfqs I on-chain strategies was trading rfqs I"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "was hoping you could explain what that was hoping you could explain what that was hoping you could explain what that"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "was why it was a strategy that you loved was why it was a strategy that you loved was why it was a strategy that you loved"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "and that worked so well and then why you and that worked so well and then why you and that worked so well and then why you"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "discontinued it this was about discontinued it this was about discontinued it this was about"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "half a year ago I think when we were in half a year ago I think when we were in half a year ago I think when we were in"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "the middle of expanded defy we had heard the middle of expanded defy we had heard the middle of expanded defy we had heard"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "a lot of the best opportunities were a lot of the best opportunities were a lot of the best opportunities were"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "starting to move on chain and starting to move on chain and starting to move on chain and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "centralized exchange trading was kind of centralized exchange trading was kind of centralized exchange trading was kind of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "hitting and like you know diminishing hitting and like you know diminishing hitting and like you know diminishing"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "returns volumes are pretty low and so returns volumes are pretty low and so returns volumes are pretty low and so"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "we're like okay let's just spend more we're like okay let's just spend more we're like okay let's just spend more"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "time looking at D5 and I think back then time looking at D5 and I think back then time looking at D5 and I think back then"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "rfqs were rfqs were rfqs were"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "a bit of a fad and Doug from Croc swap a bit of a fad and Doug from Croc swap a bit of a fad and Doug from Croc swap"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "has written some interesting threads has written some interesting threads has written some interesting threads"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "about this lately I tend to agree with about this lately I tend to agree with about this lately I tend to agree with"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "Doug that it's not a good design and I Doug that it's not a good design and I Doug that it's not a good design and I"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "think it's think it's think it's"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "trying to take something that works in trying to take something that works in trying to take something that works in"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "Trad five but not really applying it Trad five but not really applying it Trad five but not really applying it"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "well to defy so I guess for context for well to defy so I guess for context for well to defy so I guess for context for"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "listeners rfqs stand for a request for listeners rfqs stand for a request for listeners rfqs stand for a request for"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "quotation I believe quotation I believe quotation I believe"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "the idea is good it's like well let's the idea is good it's like well let's the idea is good it's like well let's"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "try to filter out this toxic flow that try to filter out this toxic flow that try to filter out this toxic flow that"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "figures hate so much let's try to have figures hate so much let's try to have figures hate so much let's try to have"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "retail interact directly with makers so retail interact directly with makers so retail interact directly with makers so"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "the retail will come in and say hey I'm the retail will come in and say hey I'm the retail will come in and say hey I'm"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "retail give me a quote and then they may retail give me a quote and then they may retail give me a quote and then they may"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "go give them a quote usually inside the go give them a quote usually inside the go give them a quote usually inside the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "bbo or certainly like for the size of bbo or certainly like for the size of bbo or certainly like for the size of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "retail wants maybe better than if the retail wants maybe better than if the retail wants maybe better than if the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "retail were to hit the book directly and retail were to hit the book directly and retail were to hit the book directly and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "then the retail gets the quote and for then the retail gets the quote and for then the retail gets the quote and for"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "B5 it's like a signed payload that you B5 it's like a signed payload that you B5 it's like a signed payload that you"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "broadcast to some smart contract which broadcast to some smart contract which broadcast to some smart contract which"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "then verifies it and then does the one then verifies it and then does the one then verifies it and then does the one"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "transfer between them we tell them the transfer between them we tell them the transfer between them we tell them the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "market maker it's just like OTC but this market maker it's just like OTC but this market maker it's just like OTC but this"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "protocol built around it I guess protocol built around it I guess protocol built around it I guess"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "yeah this might sound good and it yeah this might sound good and it yeah this might sound good and it"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "happens a lot in traffic I think Jane happens a lot in traffic I think Jane happens a lot in traffic I think Jane"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "Street like does a lot of this kind of Street like does a lot of this kind of Street like does a lot of this kind of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "stuff and I think it's really good you stuff and I think it's really good you stuff and I think it's really good you"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "want to be on this other video flow want to be on this other video flow want to be on this other video flow"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "you're providing retail great service by you're providing retail great service by you're providing retail great service by"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "like giving the bigger size not getting like giving the bigger size not getting like giving the bigger size not getting"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "front run by HMT student Theory but in front run by HMT student Theory but in front run by HMT student Theory but in"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "D5 it's just obviously a dumb idea D5 it's just obviously a dumb idea D5 it's just obviously a dumb idea"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "because how do you prove that your because how do you prove that your because how do you prove that your"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "retail everything's Anonymous and you're retail everything's Anonymous and you're retail everything's Anonymous and you're"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "not kyc'd and so not kyc'd and so not kyc'd and so"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "it's proof of concept for this we it's proof of concept for this we it's proof of concept for this we"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "basically just span up this simple basically just span up this simple basically just span up this simple"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "python script that just like asks for python script that just like asks for python script that just like asks for"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "quotes from these market makers and they quotes from these market makers and they quotes from these market makers and they"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "recording us you know like five basis recording us you know like five basis recording us you know like five basis"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "points away of quotes are valid for like points away of quotes are valid for like points away of quotes are valid for like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "60 seconds 90 seconds or something so 60 seconds 90 seconds or something so 60 seconds 90 seconds or something so"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "most of the time it's like pretty good most of the time it's like pretty good most of the time it's like pretty good"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "for the market maker to get that filled for the market maker to get that filled for the market maker to get that filled"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "but they're pointing like 100k in size but they're pointing like 100k in size but they're pointing like 100k in size"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "or something like that and we're just or something like that and we're just or something like that and we're just"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "like okay look we'll just wait until the like okay look we'll just wait until the like okay look we'll just wait until the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "price moves and the price obviously price moves and the price obviously price moves and the price obviously"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "moves like crypto is really volatile and moves like crypto is really volatile and moves like crypto is really volatile and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "when it moved we're like okay well we'll when it moved we're like okay well we'll when it moved we're like okay well we'll"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "just like broadcast this transaction just like broadcast this transaction just like broadcast this transaction"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "like what are you gonna do about it and like what are you gonna do about it and like what are you gonna do about it and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "it seems like super high sharp you can it seems like super high sharp you can it seems like super high sharp you can"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "do even better you don't even have to do even better you don't even have to do even better you don't even have to"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "like wait the price moves the trigger like wait the price moves the trigger like wait the price moves the trigger"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "it's basically a free option and the it's basically a free option and the it's basically a free option and the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "option has time value as well so you option has time value as well so you option has time value as well so you"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "literally just wait until the options literally just wait until the options literally just wait until the options"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "are much expire and then you just decide are much expire and then you just decide are much expire and then you just decide"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "if you want trade it or not so that if you want trade it or not so that if you want trade it or not so that"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "makes it like even more consistently makes it like even more consistently makes it like even more consistently"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "good and so I mean we just did this and good and so I mean we just did this and good and so I mean we just did this and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "then I guess this is we were not the then I guess this is we were not the then I guess this is we were not the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "first ones to do this or maybe we were first ones to do this or maybe we were first ones to do this or maybe we were"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "but the market makers react and they say but the market makers react and they say but the market makers react and they say"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "okay like we're going to stop quoting okay like we're going to stop quoting okay like we're going to stop quoting"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "you because you are making us lose money you because you are making us lose money you because you are making us lose money"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "and so you're clearly not retail and and and so you're clearly not retail and and and so you're clearly not retail and and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "they just start to like give you super they just start to like give you super they just start to like give you super"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "wide quotes there's like not Pokey at wide quotes there's like not Pokey at wide quotes there's like not Pokey at"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "all then you just switch accounts you all then you just switch accounts you all then you just switch accounts you"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "just like find a new wallet and like do just like find a new wallet and like do just like find a new wallet and like do"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "it again and fundamentally I think it again and fundamentally I think it again and fundamentally I think"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "there's like nothing wrong with this there's like nothing wrong with this there's like nothing wrong with this"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "strategy strategy strategy"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "I guess a little sort of a concern I I guess a little sort of a concern I I guess a little sort of a concern I"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "have is like the main value we're adding have is like the main value we're adding have is like the main value we're adding"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "when running this strategy is that we're when running this strategy is that we're when running this strategy is that we're"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "showing the world we're proving that showing the world we're proving that showing the world we're proving that"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "this rfps microstructure is dumb there this rfps microstructure is dumb there this rfps microstructure is dumb there"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "should be like an intellectual should be like an intellectual should be like an intellectual"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "reallocation of capital towards working reallocation of capital towards working reallocation of capital towards working"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "on something that makes more sense and on something that makes more sense and on something that makes more sense and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "maybe like we sort of accomplished that maybe like we sort of accomplished that maybe like we sort of accomplished that"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "I think now our views are like the I think now our views are like the I think now our views are like the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "makers have last look instead of the makers have last look instead of the makers have last look instead of the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "retail I mean like you said we sort of retail I mean like you said we sort of retail I mean like you said we sort of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "like stopped running this strategy but I like stopped running this strategy but I like stopped running this strategy but I"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "think that has been an evolution I do think that has been an evolution I do think that has been an evolution I do"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "think that once you do that though think that once you do that though think that once you do that though"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "there's like the whole benefit of cues there's like the whole benefit of cues there's like the whole benefit of cues"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "like it goes away and like you can see like it goes away and like you can see like it goes away and like you can see"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "the discussion on Twitter threads but the discussion on Twitter threads but the discussion on Twitter threads but"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "it's a hard problem to improve upon it's a hard problem to improve upon it's a hard problem to improve upon"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "Central limit order book and I just Central limit order book and I just Central limit order book and I just"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "don't think I refuse to do it uh and I don't think I refuse to do it uh and I don't think I refuse to do it uh and I"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "guess this is a good example of just us guess this is a good example of just us guess this is a good example of just us"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "trying things in defy just realizing how trying things in defy just realizing how trying things in defy just realizing how"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "immature the space is and I call the immature the space is and I call the immature the space is and I call the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "protocol is just like have not file protocol is just like have not file protocol is just like have not file"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "things through and this is like a nice things through and this is like a nice things through and this is like a nice"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "segue into like us basically deciding segue into like us basically deciding segue into like us basically deciding"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "like hey maybe we're actually the best like hey maybe we're actually the best like hey maybe we're actually the best"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "people to build something that is people to build something that is people to build something that is"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "actually going to service retail and actually going to service retail and actually going to service retail and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "like create a platform like like create a platform like like create a platform like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "decentralized prices Discovery let's decentralized prices Discovery let's decentralized prices Discovery let's"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "take that segue because that's where I take that segue because that's where I take that segue because that's where I"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "wanted to go next and talk about your wanted to go next and talk about your wanted to go next and talk about your"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "newest project so you're continuing to newest project so you're continuing to newest project so you're continuing to"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "run the high frequency book but you've run the high frequency book but you've run the high frequency book but you've"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "pivoted a lot of your intellectual pivoted a lot of your intellectual pivoted a lot of your intellectual"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "horsepower towards this project hyper horsepower towards this project hyper horsepower towards this project hyper"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "liquid liquid liquid"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "what is it why are you building it what is it why are you building it what is it why are you building it"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "that's right we're basically building it that's right we're basically building it that's right we're basically building it"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "because when trading on defy because when trading on defy because when trading on defy"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "we were perplexed there's a ton of we were perplexed there's a ton of we were perplexed there's a ton of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "retail flow even the defy winter of retail flow even the defy winter of retail flow even the defy winter of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "there's a ton of retail flow mid-2022"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "there's a ton of retail flow mid-2022"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "there's a ton of retail flow"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "and they're using these like absolutely and they're using these like absolutely and they're using these like absolutely"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "horrendous horrendous horrendous"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "protocols they're paying a ton of gas protocols they're paying a ton of gas protocols they're paying a ton of gas"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "because the l1s suck and they're using because the l1s suck and they're using because the l1s suck and they're using"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "these protocols where the design also these protocols where the design also these protocols where the design also"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "sucks for example rfqs it was amazing sucks for example rfqs it was amazing sucks for example rfqs it was amazing"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "trust that people actually want to use trust that people actually want to use trust that people actually want to use"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "this stuff and you can kind of see it in this stuff and you can kind of see it in this stuff and you can kind of see it in"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "the data but the man is there and so we the data but the man is there and so we the data but the man is there and so we"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "actually started exploring this actually started exploring this actually started exploring this"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "I don't remember exactly when FTX I don't remember exactly when FTX I don't remember exactly when FTX"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "happened in this timeline but it was happened in this timeline but it was happened in this timeline but it was"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "certainly before fgx collapse but not certainly before fgx collapse but not certainly before fgx collapse but not"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "that much before then when FDX blew up I that much before then when FDX blew up I that much before then when FDX blew up I"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "think the narrative obviously shifted think the narrative obviously shifted think the narrative obviously shifted"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "dramatically towards oh [ __ ] there's dramatically towards oh [ __ ] there's dramatically towards oh [ __ ] there's"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "this whole counterparty risk thing like this whole counterparty risk thing like this whole counterparty risk thing like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "not your keys not your coins this kind not your keys not your coins this kind not your keys not your coins this kind"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "of stuff that used to be a meme was all of stuff that used to be a meme was all of stuff that used to be a meme was all"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "of a sudden top of people's mind and of a sudden top of people's mind and of a sudden top of people's mind and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "that just solidified our conviction that that just solidified our conviction that that just solidified our conviction that"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "this was like something we need to build this was like something we need to build this was like something we need to build"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "and so what to build I think we actually and so what to build I think we actually and so what to build I think we actually"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "struggled with that a decent amount we struggled with that a decent amount we struggled with that a decent amount we"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "kind of wanted to figure out what people kind of wanted to figure out what people kind of wanted to figure out what people"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "actually wanted and actually wanted and actually wanted and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "what was not being serviced while in the what was not being serviced while in the what was not being serviced while in the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "market so there are a ton of uniswap market so there are a ton of uniswap market so there are a ton of uniswap"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "clones Innovations or Integrations sort clones Innovations or Integrations sort clones Innovations or Integrations sort"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "of like aggregators different curves of like aggregators different curves of like aggregators different curves"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "different formulas different adjustments different formulas different adjustments different formulas different adjustments"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "you can make to make aim anything work you can make to make aim anything work you can make to make aim anything work"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "and so we're not strong Believers in and so we're not strong Believers in and so we're not strong Believers in"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "amms like I think there's just a lot of amms like I think there's just a lot of amms like I think there's just a lot of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "dumb liquidity that is dumb liquidity that is dumb liquidity that is"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "being provided due to this false being provided due to this false being provided due to this false"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "misleading Narrative of like impermanent misleading Narrative of like impermanent misleading Narrative of like impermanent"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "loss and or like yield farming and sort loss and or like yield farming and sort loss and or like yield farming and sort"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "of remnants of that and so we're not of remnants of that and so we're not of remnants of that and so we're not"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "really strong Believers in that anyway really strong Believers in that anyway really strong Believers in that anyway"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "and even if that were the thing that the and even if that were the thing that the and even if that were the thing that the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "market was demanding there are so many market was demanding there are so many market was demanding there are so many"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "people trying to service that what are people trying to service that what are people trying to service that what are"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "we going to add by like building one we we going to add by like building one we we going to add by like building one we"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "kind of look towards centralized kind of look towards centralized kind of look towards centralized"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "exchanges and say like what do people exchanges and say like what do people exchanges and say like what do people"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "want where does price Discovery happen want where does price Discovery happen want where does price Discovery happen"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "what is liquidity it's all in perps what is liquidity it's all in perps what is liquidity it's all in perps"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "perps are just like actually perps are just like actually perps are just like actually"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "ingenious Innovation I think it was ingenious Innovation I think it was ingenious Innovation I think it was"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "actually invented in chat by popularized actually invented in chat by popularized actually invented in chat by popularized"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "by crypto and let's see who's doing that by crypto and let's see who's doing that by crypto and let's see who's doing that"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "in a decentralized way basically no one in a decentralized way basically no one in a decentralized way basically no one"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "I mean dydx's order book essentialized I mean dydx's order book essentialized I mean dydx's order book essentialized"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "and oh they're the closest you can get and oh they're the closest you can get and oh they're the closest you can get"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "they have some fractions we basically they have some fractions we basically they have some fractions we basically"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "thought like why don't we build this so thought like why don't we build this so thought like why don't we build this so"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "I think the pitch for Traders is you I think the pitch for Traders is you I think the pitch for Traders is you"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "like Finance you like buy bit you like like Finance you like buy bit you like like Finance you like buy bit you like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "something that's centralized that you'd something that's centralized that you'd something that's centralized that you'd"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "rather not have to trust there will be rather not have to trust there will be rather not have to trust there will be"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "this thing Hyperliquid there is this this thing Hyperliquid there is this this thing Hyperliquid there is this"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "thing Hyperliquid recently launched in thing Hyperliquid recently launched in thing Hyperliquid recently launched in"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "Clips Alpha it gives you the same Clips Alpha it gives you the same Clips Alpha it gives you the same"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "experience maybe liquidity is not there experience maybe liquidity is not there experience maybe liquidity is not there"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "yet but like fundamentally nothing yet but like fundamentally nothing yet but like fundamentally nothing"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "boring boring boring"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "just the same liquidity tight spreads just the same liquidity tight spreads just the same liquidity tight spreads"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "instant confirmations instant confirmations instant confirmations"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "Epsilon gas basically like gas to the Epsilon gas basically like gas to the Epsilon gas basically like gas to the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "extent of like preventing DDOS but like extent of like preventing DDOS but like extent of like preventing DDOS but like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "the chain itself can handle tens of the chain itself can handle tens of the chain itself can handle tens of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "thousands of orders per second without thousands of orders per second without thousands of orders per second without"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "an issue everything's transparent an issue everything's transparent an issue everything's transparent"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "everything's on chain like everything is everything's on chain like everything is everything's on chain like everything is"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "a transaction a transaction a transaction"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "that is basically the vision and we're that is basically the vision and we're that is basically the vision and we're"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "targeting defy to start because it's targeting defy to start because it's targeting defy to start because it's"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "hard to do to like make that educational hard to do to like make that educational hard to do to like make that educational"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "pitch and I think a lot of people are pitch and I think a lot of people are pitch and I think a lot of people are"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "trying to do it educating people that trying to do it educating people that trying to do it educating people that"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "hey you can actually there's this new hey you can actually there's this new hey you can actually there's this new"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "way to like you don't need a custodian a way to like you don't need a custodian a way to like you don't need a custodian a"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "blockchain a smart contract you can't be blockchain a smart contract you can't be blockchain a smart contract you can't be"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "your custody and it's like that is like your custody and it's like that is like your custody and it's like that is like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "a hard thing to sell like not really our a hard thing to sell like not really our a hard thing to sell like not really our"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "Edge and doing but there are these Edge and doing but there are these Edge and doing but there are these"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "people who want to do it today and like people who want to do it today and like people who want to do it today and like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "that's where parking you're basically that's where parking you're basically that's where parking you're basically"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "showing them hey like out of all the D5 showing them hey like out of all the D5 showing them hey like out of all the D5"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "protocols most of them are not serious protocols most of them are not serious protocols most of them are not serious"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "most of them are just phones are most of them are just phones are most of them are just phones are"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "something that like sort of works like a something that like sort of works like a something that like sort of works like a"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "Band-Aid solution maybe it's based on a Band-Aid solution maybe it's based on a Band-Aid solution maybe it's based on a"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "local price whatever good for djang local price whatever good for djang local price whatever good for djang"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "gamblers but not good for serious gamblers but not good for serious gamblers but not good for serious"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "traders who want real liquidity traders who want real liquidity traders who want real liquidity"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "Hyperliquid it stands out because it is Hyperliquid it stands out because it is Hyperliquid it stands out because it is"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "built with that in mind we had to built with that in mind we had to built with that in mind we had to"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "innovate a lot on with tech to make this innovate a lot on with tech to make this innovate a lot on with tech to make this"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "happen and so we were heads down happen and so we were heads down happen and so we were heads down"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "building for a good part of a quarter we building for a good part of a quarter we building for a good part of a quarter we"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "really wanted to make it work through really wanted to make it work through really wanted to make it work through"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "some smart contracts like I think we some smart contracts like I think we some smart contracts like I think we"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "were kind of sold on the dydx model of were kind of sold on the dydx model of were kind of sold on the dydx model of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "like trustless off chain matching but like trustless off chain matching but like trustless off chain matching but"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "like trustless settlement but I think like trustless settlement but I think like trustless settlement but I think"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "upon further thinking it's just pretty upon further thinking it's just pretty upon further thinking it's just pretty"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "flawed the system's only as flawed the system's only as flawed the system's only as"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "decentralized as its weakest component decentralized as its weakest component decentralized as its weakest component"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "as its most centralized component and so as its most centralized component and so as its most centralized component and so"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "we basically decided this was not we basically decided this was not we basically decided this was not"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "acceptable this was not actually at a acceptable this was not actually at a acceptable this was not actually at a"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "scale to division we actually want and scale to division we actually want and scale to division we actually want and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "so back saying okay we need to be fully so back saying okay we need to be fully so back saying okay we need to be fully"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "decentralized that leaves us very little decentralized that leaves us very little decentralized that leaves us very little"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "Choice like we need to build our own Choice like we need to build our own Choice like we need to build our own"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "blockchain I kind of just did it we're blockchain I kind of just did it we're blockchain I kind of just did it we're"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "very much of like a no-nonsense don't very much of like a no-nonsense don't very much of like a no-nonsense don't"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "take things for granted attitude and so take things for granted attitude and so take things for granted attitude and so"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "people say it's hard to build l1's but people say it's hard to build l1's but people say it's hard to build l1's but"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "we kind of just said okay like well we kind of just said okay like well we kind of just said okay like well"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "let's find some consensus protocol and let's find some consensus protocol and let's find some consensus protocol and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "John henryman not great honestly John henryman not great honestly John henryman not great honestly"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "supplies it works but it's been battle supplies it works but it's been battle supplies it works but it's been battle"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "tested and so we took it and it's built tested and so we took it and it's built tested and so we took it and it's built"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "on half of it and it's gotten us to on half of it and it's gotten us to on half of it and it's gotten us to"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "where we are today can you talk a little where we are today can you talk a little where we are today can you talk a little"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "bit more about that because I know bit more about that because I know bit more about that because I know"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "deciding to build your own L1 is a key deciding to build your own L1 is a key deciding to build your own L1 is a key"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "differentiator between what you're doing differentiator between what you're doing differentiator between what you're doing"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "with Hyperliquid and other dexes and is with Hyperliquid and other dexes and is with Hyperliquid and other dexes and is"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "a crucial component to your approach a crucial component to your approach a crucial component to your approach"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "first let's make the Assumption some first let's make the Assumption some first let's make the Assumption some"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "folks listening have no idea what an L1 folks listening have no idea what an L1 folks listening have no idea what an L1"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "is you're gonna just explain what an L1 is you're gonna just explain what an L1 is you're gonna just explain what an L1"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "is and then second again why was that is and then second again why was that is and then second again why was that"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "such an important critical decision for such an important critical decision for such an important critical decision for"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "you L1 I think was like this whole you L1 I think was like this whole you L1 I think was like this whole"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "narrative a lot of the big Investments narrative a lot of the big Investments narrative a lot of the big Investments"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "Solana Avalanche Etc this is like the Solana Avalanche Etc this is like the Solana Avalanche Etc this is like the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "whole like L1 principle but really it's whole like L1 principle but really it's whole like L1 principle but really it's"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "quite simple L1 is just a blockchain quite simple L1 is just a blockchain quite simple L1 is just a blockchain"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "it's usually contrasted with smart it's usually contrasted with smart it's usually contrasted with smart"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "contract based approaches where you take contract based approaches where you take contract based approaches where you take"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "another L1 whether that's ethereum another L1 whether that's ethereum another L1 whether that's ethereum"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "Solana and build your exchange as a Solana and build your exchange as a Solana and build your exchange as a"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "smart contract that the L1 executes smart contract that the L1 executes smart contract that the L1 executes"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "that's what it is that's what it is that's what it is"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "the reason it's so important I think the reason it's so important I think the reason it's so important I think"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "it's just weird incentive thing going on it's just weird incentive thing going on it's just weird incentive thing going on"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "where people want to build on an L1 where people want to build on an L1 where people want to build on an L1"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "because because because"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "you get the BC slash funds and it almost you get the BC slash funds and it almost you get the BC slash funds and it almost"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "have a lot of tokens and you get that have a lot of tokens and you get that have a lot of tokens and you get that"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "kind of backing and the pr and so it's kind of backing and the pr and so it's kind of backing and the pr and so it's"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "sort of like a safer bet obviously like sort of like a safer bet obviously like sort of like a safer bet obviously like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "the l1s are really trying to get people the l1s are really trying to get people the l1s are really trying to get people"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "to build on them because the no one has to build on them because the no one has to build on them because the no one has"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "a general purpose smart contract based a general purpose smart contract based a general purpose smart contract based"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "L1 has no value unless people are L1 has no value unless people are L1 has no value unless people are"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "building on it so there's bias towards building on it so there's bias towards building on it so there's bias towards"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "defaulting to Smart contracts whereas if defaulting to Smart contracts whereas if defaulting to Smart contracts whereas if"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "you look at Cosmos chains which are all you look at Cosmos chains which are all you look at Cosmos chains which are all"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "built on tendermint no one's really like built on tendermint no one's really like built on tendermint no one's really like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "incentivized to be pushing those no incentivized to be pushing those no incentivized to be pushing those no"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "value actually a cruise at least now value actually a cruise at least now value actually a cruise at least now"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "there's no value that accrues to Adam there's no value that accrues to Adam there's no value that accrues to Adam"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "for example I think they're like for example I think they're like for example I think they're like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "starting to come up with ways to do this starting to come up with ways to do this starting to come up with ways to do this"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "but it's fundamentally like a but it's fundamentally like a but it's fundamentally like a"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "self-sovereign system and so just keep self-sovereign system and so just keep self-sovereign system and so just keep"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "that in mind in terms of assessment that in mind in terms of assessment that in mind in terms of assessment"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "between the two you hear between the two you hear between the two you hear"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "my personal opinion like having tried my personal opinion like having tried my personal opinion like having tried"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "both is that it's hard for me to imagine both is that it's hard for me to imagine both is that it's hard for me to imagine"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "building a good exchange from a contract building a good exchange from a contract building a good exchange from a contract"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "platform certainly for derivatives platform certainly for derivatives platform certainly for derivatives"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "certainly if you want to run an order certainly if you want to run an order certainly if you want to run an order"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "book which I thought earlier is a good book which I thought earlier is a good book which I thought earlier is a good"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "model and so maybe like some validation model and so maybe like some validation model and so maybe like some validation"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "for this idea is that dydx which is for this idea is that dydx which is for this idea is that dydx which is"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "probably the front runner probably the front runner probably the front runner"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "is pivoting to building their own is pivoting to building their own is pivoting to building their own"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "blockchain five years later blockchain five years later blockchain five years later"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "I think for them it was I think for them it was I think for them it was"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "maybe some sort of legal pressures I can maybe some sort of legal pressures I can maybe some sort of legal pressures I can"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "only speculate there but the current only speculate there but the current only speculate there but the current"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "thing that they're running is obviously thing that they're running is obviously thing that they're running is obviously"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "not decentralized and everybody knows not decentralized and everybody knows not decentralized and everybody knows"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "this and I guess they will sunset that this and I guess they will sunset that this and I guess they will sunset that"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "when they're ready but from our when they're ready but from our when they're ready but from our"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "perspective l1s are the way to build perspective l1s are the way to build perspective l1s are the way to build"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "good exchange maybe it's a Concrete good exchange maybe it's a Concrete good exchange maybe it's a Concrete"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "example if you're running a smart example if you're running a smart example if you're running a smart"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "contract exchange you sort of contract exchange you sort of contract exchange you sort of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "constrained by how the smart contract constrained by how the smart contract constrained by how the smart contract"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "protocol works so on ethereum protocol works so on ethereum protocol works so on ethereum"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "transactions must be triggered by a user transactions must be triggered by a user transactions must be triggered by a user"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "action so then if you want to do these action so then if you want to do these action so then if you want to do these"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "things these very basic operations on a things these very basic operations on a things these very basic operations on a"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "Perpetual exchange such as distribute Perpetual exchange such as distribute Perpetual exchange such as distribute"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "funding every eight hours funding every eight hours funding every eight hours"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "this is a mechanism by which the price this is a mechanism by which the price this is a mechanism by which the price"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "is pushed towards the spot price that's is pushed towards the spot price that's is pushed towards the spot price that's"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "like a super hard thing to design if like a super hard thing to design if like a super hard thing to design if"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "you're trying to build a border Book on you're trying to build a border Book on you're trying to build a border Book on"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "an L1 let's say like 100 000 outstanding an L1 let's say like 100 000 outstanding an L1 let's say like 100 000 outstanding"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "positions the number of storage slot positions the number of storage slot positions the number of storage slot"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "updates you need to make on ethereum updates you need to make on ethereum updates you need to make on ethereum"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "like that doesn't fit into a block and like that doesn't fit into a block and like that doesn't fit into a block and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "so look you have to design a protocol so look you have to design a protocol so look you have to design a protocol"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "around like who does this use probably around like who does this use probably around like who does this use probably"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "like some auction to like figure out is like some auction to like figure out is like some auction to like figure out is"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "like privileged people who are allowed like privileged people who are allowed like privileged people who are allowed"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "to trigger funding who gets the credit to trigger funding who gets the credit to trigger funding who gets the credit"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "there's got to be some fee to them there's got to be some fee to them there's got to be some fee to them"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "because they're paying gas it's not because they're paying gas it's not because they're paying gas it's not"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "Atomic there'll be this weird thing Atomic there'll be this weird thing Atomic there'll be this weird thing"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "where like you get funding out where like you get funding out where like you get funding out"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "approximately every eight hours but approximately every eight hours but approximately every eight hours but"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "depending on how many people they are it depending on how many people they are it depending on how many people they are it"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "might be like three minutes later like might be like three minutes later like might be like three minutes later like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "it's like how are you going to run it's like how are you going to run it's like how are you going to run"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "trading strategy around that this is trading strategy around that this is trading strategy around that this is"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "like a super basic operation like all like a super basic operation like all like a super basic operation like all"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "exchanges need this exchanges need this exchanges need this"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "it's trivial like you just bake it into it's trivial like you just bake it into it's trivial like you just bake it into"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "the consensus protocol itself you just the consensus protocol itself you just the consensus protocol itself you just"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "say like all right when you're producing say like all right when you're producing say like all right when you're producing"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "new block you're gonna execute arbitrary new block you're gonna execute arbitrary new block you're gonna execute arbitrary"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "code so if this block is a new multiple code so if this block is a new multiple code so if this block is a new multiple"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "of like eight hours since I'm zero let's of like eight hours since I'm zero let's of like eight hours since I'm zero let's"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "just trigger this thing and like do the just trigger this thing and like do the just trigger this thing and like do the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "thing and it's just like so much simpler thing and it's just like so much simpler thing and it's just like so much simpler"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "and so I think like running an exchange and so I think like running an exchange and so I think like running an exchange"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "is a lot closer to building an L1 than is a lot closer to building an L1 than is a lot closer to building an L1 than"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "it is to writing some simple smart it is to writing some simple smart it is to writing some simple smart"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "contract now you're talking about perps contract now you're talking about perps contract now you're talking about perps"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "I want to go back a little bit to the I want to go back a little bit to the I want to go back a little bit to the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "traditional way in which these traditional way in which these traditional way in which these"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "centralized exchanges currently operate centralized exchanges currently operate centralized exchanges currently operate"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "which is via liquidity pools at which is via liquidity pools at which is via liquidity pools at"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "different fee tiers so someone who wants different fee tiers so someone who wants different fee tiers so someone who wants"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "to provide liquidity might put in to provide liquidity might put in to provide liquidity might put in"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "I don't know ethereum and Bitcoin for I don't know ethereum and Bitcoin for I don't know ethereum and Bitcoin for"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "the ethereum Bitcoin pair and they might the ethereum Bitcoin pair and they might the ethereum Bitcoin pair and they might"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "offer liquidity at a one basis point fee offer liquidity at a one basis point fee offer liquidity at a one basis point fee"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "tier or a five basis point or a 30 or a tier or a five basis point or a 30 or a tier or a five basis point or a 30 or a"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "100 I think is how high they go but 100 I think is how high they go but 100 I think is how high they go but"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "there are these very specific buckets I there are these very specific buckets I there are these very specific buckets I"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "can't for example offer liquidity at a can't for example offer liquidity at a can't for example offer liquidity at a"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "15 basis point here this is a very very 15 basis point here this is a very very 15 basis point here this is a very very"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "different model than the order book different model than the order book different model than the order book"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "model one in which you are intimately model one in which you are intimately model one in which you are intimately"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "familiar with through your high familiar with through your high familiar with through your high"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "frequency trading days frequency trading days frequency trading days"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "why do you think the order book model why do you think the order book model why do you think the order book model"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "that you're adopting for Hyperliquid is that you're adopting for Hyperliquid is that you're adopting for Hyperliquid is"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "inherently better than this B tier inherently better than this B tier inherently better than this B tier"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "structure that current decentralized structure that current decentralized structure that current decentralized"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "exchanges operate on the feature thing exchanges operate on the feature thing exchanges operate on the feature thing"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "is interesting if you look at the amms is interesting if you look at the amms is interesting if you look at the amms"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "there there there"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "slowly trying to progress towards being slowly trying to progress towards being slowly trying to progress towards being"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "an order book a lot of defies a little an order book a lot of defies a little an order book a lot of defies a little"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "frustrating it's like Reinventing the frustrating it's like Reinventing the frustrating it's like Reinventing the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "wheel maybe there'll be some Innovations wheel maybe there'll be some Innovations wheel maybe there'll be some Innovations"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "along the way but fundamentally the along the way but fundamentally the along the way but fundamentally the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "liquidity pool model it's both ingenious liquidity pool model it's both ingenious liquidity pool model it's both ingenious"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "scam so it was born out of necessity if scam so it was born out of necessity if scam so it was born out of necessity if"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "you're in like 2018 or whenever unisoft you're in like 2018 or whenever unisoft you're in like 2018 or whenever unisoft"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "was built it's not feasible to do was built it's not feasible to do was built it's not feasible to do"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "anything other than a few simple anything other than a few simple anything other than a few simple"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "arithmetic operations one or two storage arithmetic operations one or two storage arithmetic operations one or two storage"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "updates per transaction the users updates per transaction the users updates per transaction the users"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "there's a tolerance how much gas they're there's a tolerance how much gas they're there's a tolerance how much gas they're"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "willing to pay and so it was born out of willing to pay and so it was born out of willing to pay and so it was born out of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "necessity it's like computational necessity it's like computational necessity it's like computational"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "constraint and so they like kind of constraint and so they like kind of constraint and so they like kind of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "managed to get it to work by basically managed to get it to work by basically managed to get it to work by basically"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "tricking people into providing liquidity tricking people into providing liquidity tricking people into providing liquidity"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "to the pool I think impermanent loss was to the pool I think impermanent loss was to the pool I think impermanent loss was"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "like a super good like a super good like a super good"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "marketing Ploy borderline I feel like marketing Ploy borderline I feel like marketing Ploy borderline I feel like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "unethical I don't know I think these unethical I don't know I think these unethical I don't know I think these"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "people are smart people I find it hard people are smart people I find it hard people are smart people I find it hard"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "to believe that they didn't know what to believe that they didn't know what to believe that they didn't know what"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "they were doing but I think tricking they were doing but I think tricking they were doing but I think tricking"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "people to say hey like you put your people to say hey like you put your people to say hey like you put your"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "stuff here stuff here stuff here"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "you're not trading you're not like you're not trading you're not like you're not trading you're not like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "posting liquidity you're just depositing posting liquidity you're just depositing posting liquidity you're just depositing"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "into this like yield thing and yeah you into this like yield thing and yeah you into this like yield thing and yeah you"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "might have some loss but like don't might have some loss but like don't might have some loss but like don't"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "worry it's impermanent it's worry it's impermanent it's worry it's impermanent it's"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "definitely definitely definitely"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "questionable and questionable and questionable and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "I mean I think people working out for I mean I think people working out for I mean I think people working out for"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "this now you just model the prices of this now you just model the prices of this now you just model the prices of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "random walk there used to be a lot of random walk there used to be a lot of random walk there used to be a lot of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "controversy around this I don't really controversy around this I don't really controversy around this I don't really"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "know why it's like super obvious as a know why it's like super obvious as a know why it's like super obvious as a"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "Trader you just are these pools and make Trader you just are these pools and make Trader you just are these pools and make"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "a ton of money it's a super competitive a ton of money it's a super competitive a ton of money it's a super competitive"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "trade now but like it's a really good trade now but like it's a really good trade now but like it's a really good"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "trade and like who's providing this trade and like who's providing this trade and like who's providing this"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "liquidity it's not professional market liquidity it's not professional market liquidity it's not professional market"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "makers like an order book it's a bunch makers like an order book it's a bunch makers like an order book it's a bunch"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "of retail that maybe put their funds of retail that maybe put their funds of retail that maybe put their funds"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "down like literally like forgot they put down like literally like forgot they put down like literally like forgot they put"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "it there and it's just like this it there and it's just like this it there and it's just like this"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "negative EV negative EV negative EV"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "over time you're just suffering they over time you're just suffering they over time you're just suffering they"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "throw on this like yield farming stuff throw on this like yield farming stuff throw on this like yield farming stuff"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "to incentivize liquidity and then maybe to incentivize liquidity and then maybe to incentivize liquidity and then maybe"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "the yield farming thing like dries up the yield farming thing like dries up the yield farming thing like dries up"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "within the retail like forgets that within the retail like forgets that within the retail like forgets that"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "their liquidity is still there like I their liquidity is still there like I their liquidity is still there like I"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "don't really know but it's not a don't really know but it's not a don't really know but it's not a"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "sustainable model and like people might sustainable model and like people might sustainable model and like people might"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "say oh the volumes are pretty high maybe say oh the volumes are pretty high maybe say oh the volumes are pretty high maybe"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "it works but it's because of this sort it works but it's because of this sort it works but it's because of this sort"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "of ingenious marketing scheme over time of ingenious marketing scheme over time of ingenious marketing scheme over time"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "I expect the liquidity just to be like I expect the liquidity just to be like I expect the liquidity just to be like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "trending downwards and when it actually trending downwards and when it actually trending downwards and when it actually"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "hits the equilibrium you're just going hits the equilibrium you're just going hits the equilibrium you're just going"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "to find the liquid needs to be so bad to find the liquid needs to be so bad to find the liquid needs to be so bad"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "that the fees pay for the adverse that the fees pay for the adverse that the fees pay for the adverse"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "selection relative to The Recoil flow selection relative to The Recoil flow selection relative to The Recoil flow"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "and that level of liquidity if you do and that level of liquidity if you do and that level of liquidity if you do"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "the math is awful and that's the the math is awful and that's the the math is awful and that's the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "fundamental like argument for why these fundamental like argument for why these fundamental like argument for why these"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "pool based things don't work in pool based things don't work in pool based things don't work in"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "evolution of that is GMX or all the GMX evolution of that is GMX or all the GMX evolution of that is GMX or all the GMX"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "clones where instead of having this clones where instead of having this clones where instead of having this"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "constant curve they use an oracle price constant curve they use an oracle price constant curve they use an oracle price"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "they have all these tricks and sort of they have all these tricks and sort of they have all these tricks and sort of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "limits and things like that to get the limits and things like that to get the limits and things like that to get the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "Oracle price to be relatively accurate Oracle price to be relatively accurate Oracle price to be relatively accurate"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "when trades come in but even then you when trades come in but even then you when trades come in but even then you"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "start to see these pretty famous cases start to see these pretty famous cases start to see these pretty famous cases"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "of people manipulating the price on of people manipulating the price on of people manipulating the price on"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "centralized exchanges and then trading centralized exchanges and then trading centralized exchanges and then trading"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "on GMX against the manipulated Oracle on GMX against the manipulated Oracle on GMX against the manipulated Oracle"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "price and might be all this stuff as price and might be all this stuff as price and might be all this stuff as"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "Band-Aid Solutions Band-Aid Solutions Band-Aid Solutions"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "I think the tech is finally out of place I think the tech is finally out of place I think the tech is finally out of place"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "in I guess like L1 consensus or this in I guess like L1 consensus or this in I guess like L1 consensus or this"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "kind of a general area of research where kind of a general area of research where kind of a general area of research where"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "you can just like not make these you can just like not make these you can just like not make these"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "sacrifices you can have your cake and sacrifices you can have your cake and sacrifices you can have your cake and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "eat it you can be decentralized and run eat it you can be decentralized and run eat it you can be decentralized and run"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "an order book which is an order book which is an order book which is"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "from what I can tell empirically from what I can tell empirically from what I can tell empirically"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "speaking the only way people have found speaking the only way people have found speaking the only way people have found"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "to encourage real price Discovery real to encourage real price Discovery real to encourage real price Discovery real"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "markets markets markets"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "one of the potential problems one of the potential problems one of the potential problems"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "with having your own L1 is it requires with having your own L1 is it requires with having your own L1 is it requires"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "people to bridge money on and off the L1 people to bridge money on and off the L1 people to bridge money on and off the L1"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "from some sort of Fiat on-ramp or from some sort of Fiat on-ramp or from some sort of Fiat on-ramp or"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "another chain another chain another chain"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "which I could see potentially being a which I could see potentially being a which I could see potentially being a"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "risk to price Discovery the price risk to price Discovery the price risk to price Discovery the price"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "discovery on the platform might not be discovery on the platform might not be discovery on the platform might not be"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "as efficient because money moving on and as efficient because money moving on and as efficient because money moving on and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "off the platform is inherently speed off the platform is inherently speed off the platform is inherently speed"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "limited by this bridging component I'm limited by this bridging component I'm limited by this bridging component I'm"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "curious as to your thoughts there do you curious as to your thoughts there do you curious as to your thoughts there do you"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "see that being a potential risk in see that being a potential risk in see that being a potential risk in"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "operating this as your own L1 or do you operating this as your own L1 or do you operating this as your own L1 or do you"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "think that that's a non-issue is think that that's a non-issue is think that that's a non-issue is"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "definitely an issue in crypto in general definitely an issue in crypto in general definitely an issue in crypto in general"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "not even just in D5 because not even just in D5 because not even just in D5 because"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "even if you're trading on centralized even if you're trading on centralized even if you're trading on centralized"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "exchange when you're doing arbs you're exchange when you're doing arbs you're exchange when you're doing arbs you're"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "withdrawals and deposits are on the withdrawals and deposits are on the withdrawals and deposits are on the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "blockchains and so if things are blockchains and so if things are blockchains and so if things are"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "congested and you still have this issue congested and you still have this issue congested and you still have this issue"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "but we're focusing on purpose to start but we're focusing on purpose to start but we're focusing on purpose to start"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "like I said it's because it's the 80 20 like I said it's because it's the 80 20 like I said it's because it's the 80 20"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "here in terms of opportunity almost all here in terms of opportunity almost all here in terms of opportunity almost all"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "the volumes and purpose and the nice the volumes and purpose and the nice the volumes and purpose and the nice"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "thing about purpose is you can start thing about purpose is you can start thing about purpose is you can start"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "with another 80 20 which is like let's with another 80 20 which is like let's with another 80 20 which is like let's"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "just margin them with usdc and call it a just margin them with usdc and call it a just margin them with usdc and call it a"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "day and not that hard to add a couple day and not that hard to add a couple day and not that hard to add a couple"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "more stables in there to diversify more stables in there to diversify more stables in there to diversify"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "across stable coin risk but by and large across stable coin risk but by and large across stable coin risk but by and large"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "people like pretty willing to get on people like pretty willing to get on people like pretty willing to get on"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "board with this model it's like all board with this model it's like all board with this model it's like all"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "right I deposit my ufcc into this bridge right I deposit my ufcc into this bridge right I deposit my ufcc into this bridge"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "or chain or contract or whatever and or chain or contract or whatever and or chain or contract or whatever and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "then this lets me express my opinion on then this lets me express my opinion on then this lets me express my opinion on"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "a large class of crypto assets that's a large class of crypto assets that's a large class of crypto assets that's"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "pretty cool so in times of high pretty cool so in times of high pretty cool so in times of high"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "volatility volatility volatility"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "and practice Discovery you can basically and practice Discovery you can basically and practice Discovery you can basically"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "just as long as you have the collateral just as long as you have the collateral just as long as you have the collateral"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "you can express your opinion arbit in you can express your opinion arbit in you can express your opinion arbit in"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "that sense it's on our spot Barb is a that sense it's on our spot Barb is a that sense it's on our spot Barb is a"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "statistical thing you're just trying to statistical thing you're just trying to statistical thing you're just trying to"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "harvest the funding rate at a profitable harvest the funding rate at a profitable harvest the funding rate at a profitable"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "spread between spa and purpose but like spread between spa and purpose but like spread between spa and purpose but like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "you can do that trade without moving the you can do that trade without moving the you can do that trade without moving the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "spot or the uscc around at least the spot or the uscc around at least the spot or the uscc around at least the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "purple egg you can do on hyperlink that purple egg you can do on hyperlink that purple egg you can do on hyperlink that"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "being said I think like the Virginia is being said I think like the Virginia is being said I think like the Virginia is"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "like an interesting concern in general like an interesting concern in general like an interesting concern in general"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "and I think there's a lot of interesting and I think there's a lot of interesting and I think there's a lot of interesting"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "throw Omni chain technology coming out throw Omni chain technology coming out throw Omni chain technology coming out"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "these days we've integrated with some these days we've integrated with some these days we've integrated with some"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "and we're always looking for more and and we're always looking for more and and we're always looking for more and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "we're happy to basically we're happy to basically we're happy to basically"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "be supporting the people pushing that be supporting the people pushing that be supporting the people pushing that"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "Frontier we've got a lot on our plates Frontier we've got a lot on our plates Frontier we've got a lot on our plates"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "so we're not really doing the like so we're not really doing the like so we're not really doing the like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "multi-chain Innovation stuff but the multi-chain Innovation stuff but the multi-chain Innovation stuff but the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "ultimate goal which it really is just ultimate goal which it really is just ultimate goal which it really is just"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "like a technological limitation at this like a technological limitation at this like a technological limitation at this"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "point which is being solved in many ways point which is being solved in many ways point which is being solved in many ways"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "the ultimate goal is you have your the ultimate goal is you have your the ultimate goal is you have your"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "assets on any Source chain or pretty assets on any Source chain or pretty assets on any Source chain or pretty"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "agnostic just send it to this trustless agnostic just send it to this trustless agnostic just send it to this trustless"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "bridge decentralized bridge protocol and bridge decentralized bridge protocol and bridge decentralized bridge protocol and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "then it will serve as collateral on then it will serve as collateral on then it will serve as collateral on"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "Hyperliquid now even writing your own Hyperliquid now even writing your own Hyperliquid now even writing your own"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "custom L1 my expectation is that you'd custom L1 my expectation is that you'd custom L1 my expectation is that you'd"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "still be operating at speeds that are still be operating at speeds that are still be operating at speeds that are"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "orders of magnitude slower than most of orders of magnitude slower than most of orders of magnitude slower than most of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "the major crypto centralized exchanges the major crypto centralized exchanges the major crypto centralized exchanges"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "as well as traditional Finance exchanges as well as traditional Finance exchanges as well as traditional Finance exchanges"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "do you think faster is always better or do you think faster is always better or do you think faster is always better or"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "is there an Ultimate limit to the is there an Ultimate limit to the is there an Ultimate limit to the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "benefit can you get 99"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "9 of the way with benefit can you get 99"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "9 of the way with benefit can you get 99"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "9 of the way with"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "an order book speed that's still orders an order book speed that's still orders an order book speed that's still orders"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "of magnitude slower than what you see at of magnitude slower than what you see at of magnitude slower than what you see at"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "something like binance nowadays something like binance nowadays something like binance nowadays"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "you can you can you can"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "even today if you try Hyperliquid from even today if you try Hyperliquid from even today if you try Hyperliquid from"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "the UI or from the python SDK or the UI or from the python SDK or the UI or from the python SDK or"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "whatever the raw API you'll see what whatever the raw API you'll see what whatever the raw API you'll see what"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "they can see is maybe 100 they can see is maybe 100 they can see is maybe 100"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "milliseconds maybe 300"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "it's like not milliseconds maybe 300"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "it's like not milliseconds maybe 300"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "it's like not"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "super deterministic because of the super deterministic because of the super deterministic because of the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "blocks being produced but and you might blocks being produced but and you might blocks being produced but and you might"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "say oh that's terrible that's like 10x say oh that's terrible that's like 10x say oh that's terrible that's like 10x"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "the finance latency order entry the finance latency order entry the finance latency order entry"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "latencies latencies latencies"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "but Lane doesn't work like that it's not but Lane doesn't work like that it's not but Lane doesn't work like that it's not"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "like fees it's not linear and certainly like fees it's not linear and certainly like fees it's not linear and certainly"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "for a user like for retail which is the for a user like for retail which is the for a user like for retail which is the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "most important segment that you have to most important segment that you have to most important segment that you have to"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "cater to First cater to First cater to First"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "human reaction can't really human reaction can't really human reaction can't really"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "differentiate between 100 milliseconds differentiate between 100 milliseconds differentiate between 100 milliseconds"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "in 10 seconds if they can they don't in 10 seconds if they can they don't in 10 seconds if they can they don't"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "care it's like they just want something care it's like they just want something care it's like they just want something"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "that's immediate prices don't move that that's immediate prices don't move that that's immediate prices don't move that"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "much in like 100 milliseconds versus 10"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "much in like 100 milliseconds versus 10"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "much in like 100 milliseconds versus 10"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "for all intents and purposes is zero so for all intents and purposes is zero so for all intents and purposes is zero so"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "this is where like latency incurred by this is where like latency incurred by this is where like latency incurred by"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "block times is basically solved by block times is basically solved by block times is basically solved by"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "running custom L1 now if you look at running custom L1 now if you look at running custom L1 now if you look at"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "ethereum and other blockchains yeah like ethereum and other blockchains yeah like ethereum and other blockchains yeah like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "more than 10 seconds like that is more than 10 seconds like that is more than 10 seconds like that is"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "obviously a huge hit to user experience obviously a huge hit to user experience obviously a huge hit to user experience"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "and prices move a lot in 10 seconds and prices move a lot in 10 seconds and prices move a lot in 10 seconds"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "these are that we said there's these are that we said there's these are that we said there's"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "diminishing returns where they can see diminishing returns where they can see diminishing returns where they can see"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "in that regard in terms of like the in that regard in terms of like the in that regard in terms of like the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "order book speed I guess like the thing order book speed I guess like the thing order book speed I guess like the thing"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "you really care about is TPS and that you really care about is TPS and that you really care about is TPS and that"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "stands for transactions per second and I stands for transactions per second and I stands for transactions per second and I"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "guess completely for a decks you care guess completely for a decks you care guess completely for a decks you care"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "about orders cancels Etc per second and about orders cancels Etc per second and about orders cancels Etc per second and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "yes there's going to be an order of yes there's going to be an order of yes there's going to be an order of"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "magnitude difference here between magnitude difference here between magnitude difference here between"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "running a decentralized exchange and running a decentralized exchange and running a decentralized exchange and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "create somewhere like Finance create somewhere like Finance create somewhere like Finance"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "that being said I also think this that being said I also think this that being said I also think this"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "doesn't matter because doesn't matter because doesn't matter because"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "computers just get exponentially better computers just get exponentially better computers just get exponentially better"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "anyway and even now they're like at a anyway and even now they're like at a anyway and even now they're like at a"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "point where they're good enough so I point where they're good enough so I point where they're good enough so I"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "don't know the exact numbers on finances don't know the exact numbers on finances don't know the exact numbers on finances"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "matching engine but let's say it does a matching engine but let's say it does a matching engine but let's say it does a"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "million dollars per second million dollars per second million dollars per second"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "and let's say like we write our L1 it's and let's say like we write our L1 it's and let's say like we write our L1 it's"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "really performant as 100 000 orders per really performant as 100 000 orders per really performant as 100 000 orders per"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "second it's not like minus is 10x better second it's not like minus is 10x better second it's not like minus is 10x better"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "there it's hard to evaluate this but you there it's hard to evaluate this but you there it's hard to evaluate this but you"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "can very easily design a protocol that can very easily design a protocol that can very easily design a protocol that"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "Taps out at 100 000 transactions per Taps out at 100 000 transactions per Taps out at 100 000 transactions per"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "second that is a great protocol and is second that is a great protocol and is second that is a great protocol and is"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "sufficient for Price discovery on the sufficient for Price discovery on the sufficient for Price discovery on the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "assets that are listed and sure like assets that are listed and sure like assets that are listed and sure like"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "during the insane volatility spikes this during the insane volatility spikes this during the insane volatility spikes this"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "thing maybe reorders will be a couple thing maybe reorders will be a couple thing maybe reorders will be a couple"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "blocks delayed or like 10 blocks delayed blocks delayed or like 10 blocks delayed blocks delayed or like 10 blocks delayed"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "to hit the chain but it's not like this to hit the chain but it's not like this to hit the chain but it's not like this"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "stuff doesn't happen on centralized stuff doesn't happen on centralized stuff doesn't happen on centralized"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "changes either it's like yes it's an changes either it's like yes it's an changes either it's like yes it's an"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "order of magnitude but it's in the order of magnitude but it's in the order of magnitude but it's in the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "direction that doesn't suffer an order direction that doesn't suffer an order direction that doesn't suffer an order"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "of magnitude cost but if you look at the of magnitude cost but if you look at the of magnitude cost but if you look at the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "non-l1 chains and yeah they do maybe non-l1 chains and yeah they do maybe non-l1 chains and yeah they do maybe"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "like 10 transactions per second then like 10 transactions per second then like 10 transactions per second then"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "yeah I think the difference between 10 yeah I think the difference between 10 yeah I think the difference between 10"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "and 100 000 is a huge deal I think some and 100 000 is a huge deal I think some and 100 000 is a huge deal I think some"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "people take different views on this it's people take different views on this it's people take different views on this it's"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "not only a TPS thing it's also like an not only a TPS thing it's also like an not only a TPS thing it's also like an"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "engineering thing uidx is really into engineering thing uidx is really into engineering thing uidx is really into"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "the idea of off-chain order books I the idea of off-chain order books I the idea of off-chain order books I"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "think even with V4 the plan is we're think even with V4 the plan is we're think even with V4 the plan is we're"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "going to going to going to"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "let validators run their books but only let validators run their books but only let validators run their books but only"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "have settlement on chain and I guess have settlement on chain and I guess have settlement on chain and I guess"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "like in theory you can get maybe an like in theory you can get maybe an like in theory you can get maybe an"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "order of magnitude TPS boost there but I order of magnitude TPS boost there but I order of magnitude TPS boost there but I"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "think what you're giving up is pretty think what you're giving up is pretty think what you're giving up is pretty"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "expensive this increased opportunity for expensive this increased opportunity for expensive this increased opportunity for"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "MAV and this MAV and this MAV and this"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "it's just like ambiguity about what it's just like ambiguity about what it's just like ambiguity about what"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "truth is like the source of truth truth is like the source of truth truth is like the source of truth"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "because order books in my mind are part because order books in my mind are part because order books in my mind are part"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "of the state and having that be off of the state and having that be off of the state and having that be off"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "chain it's a little bit hard to reason chain it's a little bit hard to reason chain it's a little bit hard to reason"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "about and I think just you take the about and I think just you take the about and I think just you take the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "couple order magnitude hits here and couple order magnitude hits here and couple order magnitude hits here and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "there but the thing you're building is there but the thing you're building is there but the thing you're building is"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "so much robust and resilient and the so much robust and resilient and the so much robust and resilient and the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "transparency you get I think like far transparency you get I think like far transparency you get I think like far"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "outweighs the costs and I guess I will outweighs the costs and I guess I will outweighs the costs and I guess I will"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "say also that we have looked a lot into say also that we have looked a lot into say also that we have looked a lot into"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "the latest research on consensus because the latest research on consensus because the latest research on consensus because"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "we expect when it comes to it that is we expect when it comes to it that is we expect when it comes to it that is"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "going to be the limiting factor and going to be the limiting factor and going to be the limiting factor and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "there's a lot of really cool stuff there's a lot of really cool stuff there's a lot of really cool stuff"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "henryman's pretty old like the idea I henryman's pretty old like the idea I henryman's pretty old like the idea I"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "believe is 10 years old I don't actually believe is 10 years old I don't actually believe is 10 years old I don't actually"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "know the birth of the idea but at least know the birth of the idea but at least know the birth of the idea but at least"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "10 years and people have thought a lot 10 years and people have thought a lot 10 years and people have thought a lot"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "about this problem since then the only about this problem since then the only about this problem since then the only"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "issue is that the modern consensus issue is that the modern consensus issue is that the modern consensus"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "Protocols are not quite production ready Protocols are not quite production ready Protocols are not quite production ready"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "so we ended up going with tendermint for so we ended up going with tendermint for so we ended up going with tendermint for"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "now but building everything else from now but building everything else from now but building everything else from"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "scratch so not relying on the cosmos SDK scratch so not relying on the cosmos SDK scratch so not relying on the cosmos SDK"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "but writing in a very performant way in but writing in a very performant way in but writing in a very performant way in"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "Rust Rust Rust"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "what we've done the research and we will what we've done the research and we will what we've done the research and we will"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "continue to keep tabs on this and for us continue to keep tabs on this and for us continue to keep tabs on this and for us"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "it's very easy to swap out tournament it's very easy to swap out tournament it's very easy to swap out tournament"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "for any consensus protocol that is for any consensus protocol that is for any consensus protocol that is"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "production ready that we deem is better production ready that we deem is better production ready that we deem is better"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "and we expect like a 10x at least a 10x and we expect like a 10x at least a 10x and we expect like a 10x at least a 10x"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "Improvement there when the time comes Improvement there when the time comes Improvement there when the time comes"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "we're pretty optimistic about the tech we're pretty optimistic about the tech we're pretty optimistic about the tech"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "stack how much we're building and the stack how much we're building and the stack how much we're building and the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "proof of concept is there the proof of concept is there the proof of concept is there the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "benchmarking looks good you wouldn't be benchmarking looks good you wouldn't be benchmarking looks good you wouldn't be"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "doing the marketing and use access from doing the marketing and use access from doing the marketing and use access from"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "push if we didn't think the platform push if we didn't think the platform push if we didn't think the platform"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "could support this exchange well Jeff could support this exchange well Jeff could support this exchange well Jeff"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "we've come to the end here long time we've come to the end here long time we've come to the end here long time"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "listeners in my podcast will know that listeners in my podcast will know that listeners in my podcast will know that"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "one of the things I do is completely one of the things I do is completely one of the things I do is completely"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "change my cover art every season change my cover art every season change my cover art every season"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "and the cover art this season is and the cover art this season is and the cover art this season is"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "inspired by tarot cards and I'm letting inspired by tarot cards and I'm letting inspired by tarot cards and I'm letting"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "each guest pick the tarot card that each guest pick the tarot card that each guest pick the tarot card that"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "speaks to them you picked the Chariot speaks to them you picked the Chariot speaks to them you picked the Chariot"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "which will be the design of your cover which will be the design of your cover which will be the design of your cover"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "art which you've yet to see but will be art which you've yet to see but will be art which you've yet to see but will be"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "available soon the last question on the available soon the last question on the available soon the last question on the"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "episode is why did you pick that card so episode is why did you pick that card so episode is why did you pick that card so"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "there's like positive versions and there's like positive versions and there's like positive versions and"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "negative versions control willpower negative versions control willpower negative versions control willpower"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "success action determination all very success action determination all very success action determination all very"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "positive things positive things positive things"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "I think it speaks strongly to how we go I think it speaks strongly to how we go I think it speaks strongly to how we go"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "about doing things I think it sets us about doing things I think it sets us about doing things I think it sets us"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "apart from a lot of projects or teams in apart from a lot of projects or teams in apart from a lot of projects or teams in"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "the space the space the space"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "we shoot for something that is pretty we shoot for something that is pretty we shoot for something that is pretty"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "unreasonable yes most people can you unreasonable yes most people can you unreasonable yes most people can you"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "build finance a fully decentralized way build finance a fully decentralized way build finance a fully decentralized way"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "not sacrifice anything not sacrifice anything not sacrifice anything"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "the party say maybe in five years or the party say maybe in five years or the party say maybe in five years or"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "something but we don't make assumptions something but we don't make assumptions something but we don't make assumptions"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "we push ourselves do research from first we push ourselves do research from first we push ourselves do research from first"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "principles and ship things and so it's principles and ship things and so it's principles and ship things and so it's"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "sort of like willpower sort of like willpower sort of like willpower"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "action determination that's how we do action determination that's how we do action determination that's how we do"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "things and it's part of the game for things and it's part of the game for things and it's part of the game for"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "trading it's like you gotta like winning trading it's like you gotta like winning trading it's like you gotta like winning"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "just as much as you want make money if just as much as you want make money if just as much as you want make money if"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "you just have one of those you're not you just have one of those you're not you just have one of those you're not"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "going to succeed in trading and now that going to succeed in trading and now that going to succeed in trading and now that"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "we're building something bigger and it's we're building something bigger and it's we're building something bigger and it's"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "even more important we have this it's even more important we have this it's even more important we have this it's"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "like Vision it's like people need this like Vision it's like people need this like Vision it's like people need this"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "thing and nobody's building it and so thing and nobody's building it and so thing and nobody's building it and so"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "it's partly is because it's just really it's partly is because it's just really it's partly is because it's just really"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "hard to build and our team is like The hard to build and our team is like The hard to build and our team is like The"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "Chariot like we're just gonna go do it I Chariot like we're just gonna go do it I Chariot like we're just gonna go do it I"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "love it well Jeff this has been love it well Jeff this has been love it well Jeff this has been"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "fantastic I really appreciate your time fantastic I really appreciate your time fantastic I really appreciate your time"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "and best of luck with Hyperliquid and best of luck with Hyperliquid and best of luck with Hyperliquid"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "guest",
    "text": "thanks Corey it was great talking to you thanks Corey it was great talking to you thanks Corey it was great talking to you"
  },
  {
    "speaker": "host",
    "text": "appreciate it appreciate it appreciate it"
  }
]