[
  {
    "i": 0,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "Here in Connecticut, we are talking with Sal Telo, the man behind Sovereign, the DAT for Near, the development company, a friend of the show, and a lovely, lovely man in a nice sport coat. S, great to"
  },
  {
    "i": 1,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "have you."
  },
  {
    "i": 2,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": ">> Thanks, man. I appreciate the warm intro."
  },
  {
    "i": 3,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": ">> Yes, sir. Um, what a >> Yeah."
  },
  {
    "i": 4,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": ">> What a what a couple weeks for Near."
  },
  {
    "i": 5,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "Yeah."
  },
  {
    "i": 6,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": ">> Right. I mean, probably surpassed a lot of our expectations. Take us back."
  },
  {
    "i": 7,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "Couple weeks back, we got this kind of trifecta. We got Arthur Hayes talking about it. Obviously, this kind of like AI agents using intense um using uh near intense confidentially. The TVL has been"
  },
  {
    "i": 8,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "rising. People are kind of getting it."
  },
  {
    "i": 9,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": ">> Take us back last couple weeks. What's been going on uh on your side? In your mind, how you been processing kind of like what the market's reaction has been?"
  },
  {
    "i": 10,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": ">> Yeah, I mean this is I think if you guys remember the first time we chatted probably four or five months ago now, we kept talking about this market mispricing. like this is the perfect"
  },
  {
    "i": 11,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "cohesive technology platform vertically integrated products with value acrual mechanics to near and I think the market is now finally understanding how to underwrite near as an asset which is not"
  },
  {
    "i": 12,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "as a comparable L1 basis you have to really think about revenue generation and market opportunity around intense and near AAI as well um and I think there's also even as recently as this"
  },
  {
    "i": 13,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "morning Arthur from defiance was making a point like intense TAM is not cryptoto crypto swaps intense TAM is the commercial architecture ure of intents being expressed in the real economy. So"
  },
  {
    "i": 14,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "that might be the example I always gives of like I want to deliver steel to this factory for this build. It's the architecture of a commercial dealer where payments are a layer of settlement"
  },
  {
    "i": 15,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "and we're just really kind of scratching the surface in terms of the initial opportunities and use cases around it."
  },
  {
    "i": 16,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "So repricing in the asset obviously we've seen a lot of uptake in terms of Arthur and many other KS picking up on it. We've also seen massive inbound from institutional investors in the liquid"
  },
  {
    "i": 17,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "fund category >> more AI side on the revenue story side like what's the exciting part for them more mostly digital asset funds to be clear like they're underwriting the AI opportunity the privacy narrative and"
  },
  {
    "i": 18,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "seeing near uniquely positioned in that context but >> uh the amount of inbound like next week we have our our backer summit >> um it's going to be the most widely attended backer summit like hundreds of"
  },
  {
    "i": 19,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "funds will be there um and there's a lot of folks that are taking positions so I I think we're just stabilizing here. A little bit of chop sideways through the summer and and we're going to be up for"
  },
  {
    "i": 20,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "the end of the year >> despite Bitcoin's struggles."
  },
  {
    "i": 21,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": ">> Struggles. I mean, this is one of the on a statistical basis near and Bitcoin over the last 30 days have had a negative correlation, right?"
  },
  {
    "i": 22,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": ">> It's crazy. I mean, I've never I've been doing this for a long time. I've never seen alts have negative correlations to Bitcoin. Like hype, Zcash near a select few others with real fundamentals. And"
  },
  {
    "i": 23,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "what's interesting is like it's all fundamentals driven that's driving this negative correlation."
  },
  {
    "i": 24,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": ">> Yeah."
  },
  {
    "i": 25,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": ">> Obviously with the sell-off with the stretch news yesterday and then Arthur talking about the dump in context of macro and midterms, everything started to recorrelate on the way down. Um but"
  },
  {
    "i": 26,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "I've just I've never seen relationships between near or other assets in the alt space to Bitcoin like what we've seen."
  },
  {
    "i": 27,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": ">> How long do you think it lasts this this disorrelation? because it's not just uncorrelated. At least for a little while, it felt like they were actually divergent. Yeah, they were negative"
  },
  {
    "i": 28,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": ">> correlation. Was performing moving up 170% in 90 days and Bitcoin was flattened down through that period. Um, yeah, I I I haven't looked at the charts to say this is unprecedented. There's"
  },
  {
    "i": 29,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "not been another example of this, but from an anecdotal experience perspective, I've not seen it. So, >> and so the question was like how sustainable like how long do you think this lasts?"
  },
  {
    "i": 30,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": ">> Oh, that's a good question. I I was actually just talking with uh one of our team members, Frank Kamato, about this like >> do we expect this negative correlation to persist? And I think people are going"
  },
  {
    "i": 31,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "to be taken by surprise with Clarity Act. I'm in the camp of I was just saying on stage that I think it's an 80 plus% probability despite the heat that we're getting from Jamie Diamond and"
  },
  {
    "i": 32,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "many others being vocally against it. Um and I think that the industry just underappreciates how important rules are to institutional capital allocators coming in. Um, so I see that as a major"
  },
  {
    "i": 33,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "bullish catalyst. I do think the summer is sideways, but I think the end of the year, despite the midterms, is a really good setup. The biggest factor here is how long do how long does Iran last? How"
  },
  {
    "i": 34,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "long do oil prices stay high? And what's the trickle down effect in inflation data that the Fed's going to read on, you know, the dot plot on a forward outlook. So, >> um, yeah, I I don't expect this negative"
  },
  {
    "i": 35,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "correlation to continue forever."
  },
  {
    "i": 36,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": ">> Okay. on the on the near specific side h has your kind of investment thesis as you've been you know talking to funds about it to allocators about it to investors Kwells whomever has it changed"
  },
  {
    "i": 37,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "materially over the past couple months obviously confidential intents have have had a huge growth the AI kind of boom of Venice as a protocol and as a company has done well and near is powering some"
  },
  {
    "i": 38,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "of the private inference there like what has the what what has been the changing in the pitch for near the asset in the last couple months?"
  },
  {
    "i": 39,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": ">> No, I think you honestly nailed them, man. Like you guys are pretty close to the ecosystem. Uh privacy as a narrative has continued to run hot. Started last September. It's continuing through"
  },
  {
    "i": 40,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "today. I just got a question from uh Jamie Coots yesterday in terms of like where does Near sit relative to Zcash?"
  },
  {
    "i": 41,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "Is it competitive? And my view is absolutely not. We're providing a privacy computation layer on top of a private sovereign asset. Um, and that's a constructive and complimementaryary"
  },
  {
    "i": 42,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "thing. Uh, >> just real quick, I like to think of NER as the Ethereum to Zcash, it's Bitcoin, if you will."
  },
  {
    "i": 43,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": ">> Yeah, it's very similar kind of they're they're complimentary. They're not competitive."
  },
  {
    "i": 44,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": ">> Um, but privacy narrative running hot."
  },
  {
    "i": 45,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "The neari product side is actually starting to get to a place now where like iron claw user experience is much much better. You're going to see some real use cases coming out around that."
  },
  {
    "i": 46,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "And then the part that gets me the most excited is the mechanic design behind private inference and ironclaw. And I think towards September October we'll be in a position where well we near"
  },
  {
    "i": 47,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "foundation will be in a position where they can start to put forward views on how these mechanics around the AI product stack acrue value to near the same way that we see with intense"
  },
  {
    "i": 48,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "buybacks today."
  },
  {
    "i": 49,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": ">> Yeah. So we've been speaking about this relative strength you know of these three categories. It's been revenue >> leading hyperlquid has kind of been leading that charge. Privacy from you"
  },
  {
    "i": 50,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "know Zcash has been leading that and and AI near VVV with Venice you know have been leading this now worldcoin is doing this as well. Uh they've been the most strong relative to the rest of the"
  },
  {
    "i": 51,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "market. in fact negatively correlated as you as you pointed out. Um and you know I think we anticipate that these will um continue to outperform once you know the market turns but they will hold up"
  },
  {
    "i": 52,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "better than the rest of the market um because they are the ones that are garnering the most attention. Near feels like it's hitting on all three. I I know I put it in the AI bucket, you know,"
  },
  {
    "i": 53,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "because hyperlquid and Zcash are kind of even more pure representations of the other two, but in reality, near intense, confidential near intense is the best example of all three. It's surging on"
  },
  {
    "i": 54,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "the revenue front. TVL is up and to the right. It's confidential and so it has privacy enabled and it is enabling AI on multiple levels. Near as a whole and so how do you think about these three? Do"
  },
  {
    "i": 55,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "you think near is the best expression of the three as they converge and yeah I guess same question but just with this context in mind how do you see these categories progressing and generally you"
  },
  {
    "i": 56,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "know how do you see near progressing as a leader in these three categories >> yeah I mean you're you guys are you guys are nailing it today very well done um it is like the spot-on expression of all"
  },
  {
    "i": 57,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "three and it's the most mispriced underlying asset what's hyped today 17 billion fully diluted revenue model through the roof on a comparative basis to near not contesting that in any way"
  },
  {
    "i": 58,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "shape or form Um but when you look at the only project that's hitting on all three of these kind of critical primitives that are narrative driven today is really the only one playing in"
  },
  {
    "i": 59,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "that group. Even if you look outside the ecosystem and look at bit tensor a lot of really exciting academic and computer science work on decentralized training decentralized compute inference um not"
  },
  {
    "i": 60,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "in the same position for Iran the way that near is so super bullish man I feel I think the whole ecosystem and a lot of the investors feel like to some extent validated that the market is now waking"
  },
  {
    "i": 61,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "up to recognitions that people that have been investing in this ecosystem have had for a while. Um but really the work's just beginning. We're in the the meat of the product execution spread"
  },
  {
    "i": 62,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "now."
  },
  {
    "i": 63,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": ">> Yeah. S what's you know you're an investor right? You're in a company that is meant to acquire near hold near be a long-term investor. Every great investor understands their upsides and their"
  },
  {
    "i": 64,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "downsides. They understand their the risks associated with a given a given asset. It wouldn't be fair if I didn't ask what are the tail risks for near here. What is the what what are the"
  },
  {
    "i": 65,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "things that from new investors who are listening watching what is there to be aware of that that need to be understood for you know what what the the kind of more bare cases here?"
  },
  {
    "i": 66,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": ">> Yeah. I mean the the space where there is by far the thickest competition with the greatest capital depth is in the secure harness category and like what ironclaw has done in my opinion from a"
  },
  {
    "i": 67,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "security architecture point of view has some real competitive advantages versus everything else you see in the market."
  },
  {
    "i": 68,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "But we're taking crypto as a 1.75 trillion, two trillion, whatever the the total market cap of the asset class is and talking about competition and AI product that is comparable to companies"
  },
  {
    "i": 69,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "that are raising 100 billion, right? And so to think there won't be competition and it won't be fierce on the AI product stack would be naive. I think the magic of this is the intersection of these"
  },
  {
    "i": 70,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "components allowing for intense to be this ubiquitous liquidity and transaction layer alongside privacy preservation alongside sovereign control um and introducing the the secure harness that ironclaw offers. But yeah,"
  },
  {
    "i": 71,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "I think that side of the market's going to be very competitive and there there will be new entrance as well. I I saw a flowchart sort of design architecture diagram from the Near protocol account"
  },
  {
    "i": 72,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "recently that described how near underpins Venice and how it helps to secure these things and I and I think you're right. I think the convergence of these three categories is the the real"
  },
  {
    "i": 73,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "value proposition and potential potential ceiling here. Can you describe a little bit more how near helps to support some of the you know initiatives like Venice with you know their private"
  },
  {
    "i": 74,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "models um and then you know there's other things like I think maybe Near and Hyperlid could potentially collab or Near and Zcash are seeing more collabs but with respect to Venice this one is"
  },
  {
    "i": 75,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "already kind of you know it's already happening can you just describe it a little bit in more detail? Yeah, there like the way that Venice is set up and I think Eric just gave this really good"
  },
  {
    "i": 76,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "descriptor of like where it sits in the in the kind of like almost like a middleware but with a consumer front end that allows consumers to select different trust assumptions and different trust models of how they"
  },
  {
    "i": 77,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "interact and different levels of privacy as as a part of that. Near's infrastructure on the private inference side is one of those underlying providers uh which provides the greatest"
  },
  {
    "i": 78,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "degree of of trust and cryptographic verification around users interactions through inference processes and confirmation over what models they're actually touching that are running"
  },
  {
    "i": 79,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "inside of TEES. Um so I think you're going to see a lot more of that where there's B2B integration and support of near private inference for those attributes. Um but Venice has been doing"
  },
  {
    "i": 80,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "an incredible job like it's all over the place right now. So, hats off to Eric and the team."
  },
  {
    "i": 81,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": ">> Yeah, Alibaba just uh posted about their models and yeah, it it was pretty insane. Um, one of the things that we've been asking a lot of these different kind of like L1s and chains is um about"
  },
  {
    "i": 82,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "the token value crew and like a lot of what we've been seeing is this institutional adoption at scale and a kind of like a a lack of a rerating of the actual asset underneath due to kind"
  },
  {
    "i": 83,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "of broken token models. And we got some flak from that from a couple different teams for asking them this. And same thing, you know, you know, too near the goal is to get deflationary right at the"
  },
  {
    "i": 84,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "underlying you want to be generating more revenue, having enough buybacks and buy pressure on on this asset to offset uh any future issuance which inflation is getting cut down uh and just general"
  },
  {
    "i": 85,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "expenses. What is the realistic path to near becoming uh more deflationary? Is there an inflation reduction in in the future coming? Ilas says next year at some point potentially. What what is the"
  },
  {
    "i": 86,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "confluence of factors that needs to happen for us to be able to look at this asset and be like guys it is a no-brainer because it is objectively a net positive."
  },
  {
    "i": 87,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": ">> Yeah. Yeah. That's a really good question and before I go into the actual technical answer to to be direct with you like I don't I think the jury's out in terms of what is the optimal economic"
  },
  {
    "i": 88,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "design within a system like Hyperlid almost faces the opposite challenge which is like at a half a billion a year run rate revenue buying back tokens like is the 99% buyback actually the right"
  },
  {
    "i": 89,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "structure for them or should they actually be generating revenue to drive further product development and expansion in other categories over time and like TBD We don't know. Um, but for"
  },
  {
    "i": 90,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "near in particular, over the next 12 months, the number one metric to look at in terms of actual buybacks and value capture in the token is going to be intense volume scaling. We've been"
  },
  {
    "i": 91,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "looking at intense on an average basis, 50 to 70 million daily through pretty bearish market over the last six to nine months."
  },
  {
    "i": 92,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": ">> Uh, the research report we put out in March looked at 170 million with a blended take rate, less than 10 bips on transactions being the inflection point to deflationary. I think we'll have a"
  },
  {
    "i": 93,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "more objective point of view coming out from Jamie Coots and Real Vision over the next couple weeks in a report that they're they're painting. Um, and then I think the whole AI stack and the"
  },
  {
    "i": 94,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "mechanic design around that will accelerate. And so we'll put out another research report September October that doesn't just address the fundamental bottoms up underwriting case for"
  },
  {
    "i": 95,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "Intense, but actually contemplates both of these vertical product stacks coming together with united mechanics. Um, and then to Ilia's point, we will continually evaluate as an ecosystem the"
  },
  {
    "i": 96,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "inflation mechanics around the system to optimize the design there. He has a better line of sight in terms of timing and thinking there, but obviously we're supportive of the scenario that drives"
  },
  {
    "i": 97,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "the best value ac the Dune dashboard here which has a ton of great stats. 20 billion dollars of alltime volume through near intense. Uh almost two billion no over two billion in the last 30 days. Um only only 35"
  },
  {
    "i": 98,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "million in generated fees. It feels like that number should be higher. I don't know that like that feels really really >> affordable cheap if you will like in terms of like the costs that Near is"
  },
  {
    "i": 99,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "charging for fees through this platform."
  },
  {
    "i": 100,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "Mhm."
  },
  {
    "i": 101,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": ">> Do you anticipate that near will increase fee? And and this actually plays into the conversation we've been having with several token protocol L1s like we had I'll just reiterate quickly."
  },
  {
    "i": 102,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "We had this exact same thing. We asked John from Avalanche and Aval earlier today. We asked uh Dell from Stellar. We asked Joe Shalom as it pertains to Ethereum. All of these blockchains are"
  },
  {
    "i": 103,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "trying to scale. They're bringing their average transaction fee down. Yeah. But their business model, their token value horistic is built on fees flowing to the token. Yeah, >> these feel totally disconnected. They"
  },
  {
    "i": 104,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "feel totally contradictory to one another. So obviously Near can drive even more volume by bringing fees down, but they're a business. They're meant to, you know, drive revenue. So where"
  },
  {
    "i": 105,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "does that barometer end up? What is equilibrium? Is this currently a fair, you know, fee model or generally what what should change up, down, sideways?"
  },
  {
    "i": 106,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": ">> Yeah. Yeah. I I think as compared to pretty much every one of these other L1s that you were describing, Near stands apart and is unique in that it has this vertical product integration and is"
  },
  {
    "i": 107,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "monetizing intense in addition to the protocol burn transaction fee, which to your point, Blockspace is commoditized."
  },
  {
    "i": 108,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "It's super cheap to transact. It's only going to get cheaper over time. where near strategy is different from all of those others is that effectively the unis swap protocol is acrewing value to"
  },
  {
    "i": 109,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "near. So in the Ethereum context, I explained this on bank list maybe like two weeks ago or something. This was the example I gave was in your world, David, unis swap is acrewing value to ETH. Uh"
  },
  {
    "i": 110,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "that is the case in near. So in terms of actually pricing power and fee structure, I think you've probably seen the last three weeks confidential intense has just literally ripped in"
  },
  {
    "i": 111,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "terms of volume and TVL. I think there is a premium to be paid for private transactions in the world. And so I think you may see more pricing power for confidential intents as compared to the"
  },
  {
    "i": 112,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "pricing structure that existed for you know vanilla intents. Um and the team if you look not only at the dune dashboard but at the actual kind of profit that the protocol is making over time that is"
  },
  {
    "i": 113,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "not reflective of the fact that the fee switch was flipped in February and then there were bilateral distribution agreements that were inked over the next 90 days. And so pretty much 95% of the"
  },
  {
    "i": 114,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "volume that's processed through Intense has those in place now. Um but the bottom line profit to the protocol is not reflective of that fee switch and 100% of everyone using Intense was"
  },
  {
    "i": 115,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "actually fee sharing at that time. So I think the next 90 days will be the first time where you can actually look not just at top-end fees but also at the bottom end pro profit to the protocol"
  },
  {
    "i": 116,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "for net buybacks. Um, and I think that's an important metric that people in the market are looking at and trying to really understand like, okay, to your point, 35 million fees, is that a fair"
  },
  {
    "i": 117,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "take rate? Okay, what's the actual protocol take rate behind that? Why is there a variance between what we're seeing? And and this is the logic and kind of path it took to get there."
  },
  {
    "i": 118,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": ">> Yeah. And I think Ilia tweeted about he wanted to see a future where it's not just a button on the dashboard on.com for confidential or not, that it just >> always by default. And so that could be"
  },
  {
    "i": 119,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "a way to add that take rate to all the transactions a little bit of of a of a premium on it."
  },
  {
    "i": 120,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": ">> Yep. Yep. Absolutely."
  },
  {
    "i": 121,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": ">> There there um was a dashboard that was launched by the Aerod Drrome Foundation recently. Uh it was Droo, you know, was associated with Aerodrome and it it was illustrating this net token value flow"
  },
  {
    "i": 122,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "across several protocols. Um and as I understand it, it is essentially saying there's income into the token, there's earnings, you know, there's revenue, there's buybacks. this all value flows"
  },
  {
    "i": 123,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "into the token and then there's emissions, there's expenses, there's things that flow out of the token. Very simple. If you have more coming in than you have going out, then you're going to"
  },
  {
    "i": 124,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "be in that green category. You're going to be looking good."
  },
  {
    "i": 125,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": ">> Um, Hyperlquid is at the top of this, but you know, there's others on there like uh Cake, right? Cake swap from Binance Chain. There's Pump Fun is on there. You know, Aeromer's own token is"
  },
  {
    "i": 126,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "on there. Um but all you know hype is clearly you know uh different amongst that category. Not all of those even though they are all have more coming in there's variance in in how they their"
  },
  {
    "i": 127,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "tokens are performing. My question is here is you know I guess generally why and I I thought about this a little bit and the answer I came to is that Hyperlid is programmatically buying back"
  },
  {
    "i": 128,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "their token. there is a pre-commitment that says 99% of the revenue here and we can forecast and project how much revenue is probably going coming in is all going into the token whereas pump"
  },
  {
    "i": 129,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "fund seems to kind of do these buybacks like once in a while when they feel like it you know I'm not sure you know cake arrow exactly how their models work but as we're thinking about this and then"
  },
  {
    "i": 130,
    "speaker": "Speaker 3",
    "text": "looking at near in particular >> how important is this pre-commitment for buying back the token and value flowing into it?"
  },
  {
    "i": 131,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": ">> Yeah, it's a really good question. And it's a space where to your point like the approaches in the market are pretty wide right now. Like you have the pump fund fully programmatic, fully"
  },
  {
    "i": 132,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "transparent onchain as a result of a validator vote despite at the time being pretty tightly controlled on the decision. Um all the way down to completely intermittent random decisions"
  },
  {
    "i": 133,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "to buy back in bulk at time to support price for some protocols. that's not the case in near um this is a space I think you will probably see standards start to emerge over time in terms of how value"
  },
  {
    "i": 134,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "acrruel actually flows back to tokens and what is the reporting and transparency expectations around that and I know that from the sovereign perspective we're committed to driving the ecosystem in a direction that very"
  },
  {
    "i": 135,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "much meets the edge of the market to give investors confidence and certainty in underwriting the asset we don't make those decisions but our view is whatever creates the most certain foundation to"
  },
  {
    "i": 136,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "underwrite the asset with the best data and information available is net positive to everyone because we think that data and information leads to a really compelling investment case. Hence"
  },
  {
    "i": 137,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": "why I'm doing this job."
  },
  {
    "i": 138,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": ">> Yeah."
  },
  {
    "i": 139,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": ">> Sal man, thanks for spending some time with us. Um, always fun guys."
  },
  {
    "i": 140,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": ">> Absolutely love to see the growth over the last couple weeks and and I think you know there are some levels to take out but it's the fundamentals that are driving this and that's what matters."
  },
  {
    "i": 141,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "Um, I think that the market's very much responding to the fundamental growth of certain crypto assets, blockchains, etc."
  },
  {
    "i": 142,
    "speaker": "Speaker 1",
    "text": "And that's what we want to continue to kind of foster on on our show and just broadly as an industry."
  },
  {
    "i": 143,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": ">> Love it, guys. Appreciate it."
  },
  {
    "i": 144,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": ">> As always, thanks."
  },
  {
    "i": 145,
    "speaker": "Speaker 2",
    "text": ">> Appreciate it, man."
  }
]